Carl Hissman

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I:      It’s a beautiful city of Vancouver, state of Washington. My name is Jongwoo Han. I am the president of Korean War Legacy Foundation, which has more than 1500 Korean War veterans interview not just from the United States, but from other 21 countries that participate in the war. We are doing this to preserve your memory because it’s been a long time

 

00:00:30

 

and to honor your service and sacrifice. But also, we want to make this interview into curricular resources for the teachers so that they can use this interview when they talk about the Korean War in their classroom. That’s why we are doing this. It’s my great honor and pleasure to meet you and thank you for receiving me in your beautiful home surrounded by

 

00:01:00

 

300 dolls. Yeah, it’s beautiful and thank you. Please say your name. What is your name?

C:     Carl Leroy Hissman.

I:      Can you spell it?

C:     C-A-R-L-E-R-O-Y-H-I-S-S-M-A-N?

I:      Yes. And what is your birthday?

 

C:     3/21/39

 

I:       21/39. So that makes you

 

00:01:30

 

C:     Right.

I:      Wow, you look very young.

C:     Not hardly, I don’t feel very young.

I:     You don’t, but you look very young.

 

C:     Well, I’m lucky, I will admit that. Had a good life with got a good wife.

I:     What’s her name? Lola. Lola? Yes.

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So, she’s the one who collected 300 dolls. You could go on 3000.

C:     No, we’re done with those.

I:     Okay. Where were you born?

C:     Colorado Springs, Colorado.

I:     Very beautiful springs in Colorado. And please tell me about your family, parents and siblings when you were growing up.

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C:     Well, my dad worked in aircraft and during the second World War he was inspector for the Air Force to check for sabotage on crashes. My mother was strictly a mother. She did work at a telephone company when I was young.

I:     Yeah.

C:     And I have one sister and she’s, uh,

 

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three years older than I am.

I:     And when did you graduate your high school and where?

C:     I went to high school in Manitou Springs, Colorado, which is just out of Colorado Springs.

I:     What is the name of it?

C:     Manitou.

I:     M-A-N-I-T-O-U-I-T-O-U-O-U. High school. When did you graduate?

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C:     I graduated by popular demand. They kicked me out.

I:     You kicked out?

C:     Yeah, it was during the war and my budy was six four, I was six two. My other one was only five foot six. We wanted to enlist because the war was going on and went and enlisted but they called our parents and found out were only

 

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16, so they wouldn’t let us go. A lot of guys got in at 16, but because they called our parents, we didn’t get in. But that was just one of those things. I got my GED to the army when I enlisted, so I got my finished set.

 

I:     Okay, when did you enlist? Army.

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C:     In the army?

I:     Yeah. Did you enlist Army or?

C:     I enlisted in the Army in 1950.

 

I:     1950.

 

C: Yeah. Well, it was 49. I enlisted in 49.

 

I:     49.

 

C:     I was in Korea in 50. Right.

I:     So where did you get the basic military training?

C:     Fort Ord, California.

I:     And then when did you leave for Korea?

 

C:     Well, I went to OCS. I finished

 

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Leadership School in Fort Orde. They sent me to OCS. And because I wasn’t in the smartest bunch, four of us with me went to Korea. They flew us over on TWA Airlines and they were in a hurry to get us here, I guess. But that’s when I went into Korea, actually. Japan in Cebu

 

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and then to Korea.

I:     So, you landed in Japan, and then you went to Korea, where? In Pusan.

C:     Pusan.

I:     Pusan.

C:     We called it Pusan. Now it’s Busan.

 

I:      Right. When did you arrive in Pusan?

C:     Well, actually, it wasn’t Busan I landed in. It was Wonsan in North Korea. I landed in North Korea before the

 

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Chinese came in. And when the Chinese came in, they evacuated us out of Heungnam, and then I went to Pusan from there.

I:     So, from Japan, you directly went to Wonsan?

C:     Wonsan? Yeah.

I:     It’s an east coast, right?

C:     Right.

I:     Yes. So, you didn’t go to Pusan? You directly go to Wonsan?

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C:     I went from Japan to Wonsan.

I:     Yeah. When did you arrive in Wonsan?

C:     It must have been around, let’s see, I was there had to be November, probably November 1950 because we got run out of there because I had loaded on the ship Christmas Eve.

I:     Yeah. So, what was your unit?

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C:     Uh, 3rd Division, 7th Regiment, heavy mortar company.

I:     Regiment. And what about battalion? What battalion?

C:     What’s that?

I:     Battalion? You didn’t belong to any battalion?

C:     I belong

 

Female Voice: Were you in a battalion?

C:     Oh, third Battalion.

I:     Third Battalion. And what company?

C:     Heavy mortar company.

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I:     What was your specialty?

C:     I was a recon officer driver. That was my job. It was Captain Aylward, which is not even mentioned in the Third Division book. He’s one of the best officers I ever had. He was a battlefield commissioned officer by General Patton

 

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and I admired that man no end. He did survive the war, but he left the mortar company because he wanted to fight. He didn’t want to be sitting in the backyard. And so, he took a line company and left me behind. I guess it’s a good thing. He was probably thinking I might survive here.

I:     Yeah. What was your rank at the time?

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C:     Staff Sergeant.

I:     Staff Sergeant?

C:     Yeah.

I:     So, you were pretty high?

 

C:     Well, pretty good for me.

I:     And why did you land in Wonsan? What were you supposed to do there? Where did you go from there?

C:     Well, went into reserve before the Chinese came in. And when the Chinese came in,

 

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they sent because I was a driver, I didn’t go, but they sent one platoon from all the companies to help get the Marines out of the chosen reservoir.

I:     Wow, so you were there?

C:     I wasn’t at the Chosen Reservoir. I was up on the north coast, 15 miles below the border. Right on the coast because Captain Hayward

 

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couldn’t stand to not be involved in the fighting. So went up the coast, and when the Chinese come in, we got there just in the evening, and he told me to go find a foxhole. And he went to talk to the commanding officer. But weren’t even supposed to be there. We were supposed to be in our

 

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company down at Wonsan, but he just wanted to go, so we went because there wasn’t any battle near us. They hadn’t gotten that far down.

I:     So, you drove jeep or truck?

C:     What’s that?

I:     Did you drove? Drive jeep, yeah. Or truck?

 

C:     Jeep.

I:     Jeep.

C:     Jeep.

I:     And you drove toward north?

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C:     North on the coast till about the town, 15 miles below the border.

I:     Really? So that’s far north, right?

C:     It was far north.

I:     How long did it take to get there?

C:     Oh, God, I don’t remember. It took us probably half a day or so. But I know the Chinese cut the road off as soon as after we got there, and were trapped there until

 

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they could open the road again the next day. And then we got out. But I don’t know if I scared or sick from something I ate, but I remember when he told me to go to the foxhole, I got halfway across the field and I had to do my job, and I started to throw up. And I think I was probably scared, but I remember when I was squatting out there in the middle of the

 

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rice field, I watched the chi burst around me and I thought it was like the 4 July never dawned on me. It could kill me; I was that sick. And I just finally found a foxhole. And then next morning, they cleared the road and we left and went back to the company. But, uh…

I:     So, you mean you went up north and then came back down to

 

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Wonsan?

 

C:     Back down to Wonsan. Or just somewhere between the Chosin Reservoir. I don’t know where.

 

I:     Right.

 

C:     Because you just go wherever the company goes, wherever they tell you to go.

I:     You were not attacked by Chinese?

 

C:     No.

 

I:     No. Okay. And then you went down to Wonsan, and then where did you go from there?

C:     Uh, well, we evacuated on

 

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Christmas Eve. The Navy is great. They got white sheets and showers.

I:     Yeah.

C:     And then went from there. We were one of the last units off the beach. The engineers blew up the harbor when we were leaving, but then went to Pusan, and then it was fighting all the way back up.

I:     So, before you left Heungnam, there were many North Korean

 

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refugees, right?

C:     Oh, you bet.

I:     Tell me about it. What did you see? How many and how was the situation there?

C:     Well, the roads are full of people. I’ve got some pictures of them. But you feel sorry for them because they loaded a lot of them on ships and took them with us. Some of them. What ones that they could get on,

 

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but you can’t take everybody and it’s a sad thing to say that the worst one I ever saw while I was there was I went into this village that had been bombed. I saw this old man and girl was laying on top of him. I thought they were asleep to wake them up, and I found out

 

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they were frozen to death. That’s the worst thing in my experience in North Korea. Boy, the old man and the little girl is hard to think about.

 

I:     Yeah. You still remember those.

C:     Oh, you bet. I’ll never forget that.

 

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Have to think of something else.

I:     And you took the ship from Heungnam, you went down to Pusan, and then from Pusan, where did you go?

C:     Down to Pusan.

I:     Yeah. And then you went up again?

C:     Oh, we started back up through South Korea, and I forget where we got. By that time,

 

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they’d landed the west coast of the peninsula and I think probably around Seoul or somewhere

 

I:     Incheon?

 

I:     Did you get into the Incheon?

C:     What’s that?

I:     Incheon.

C:     Yeah.

Female Voice:     Did you go there, to Incheon? Did you go to Incheon?

C:     Oh, yeah.

 

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Yeah, I went by it. I didn’t land at Wonsan. We drove up.

I:   Yeah, drove up.

C:     We went up through the.

I:     So you were still driving, right?

C:     Oh, yeah.

 

I:     Yeah.

 

C:     Yeah.

I:     With your boss?

C:     Well, our job was to go out and find positions for the mortar company.

 

00:16:00

And so were always out somewhere scouting around, whatever Captain Edward wanted. And that was our job, was to go find positions for the company to set their guns up. I remember when first Chinese we saw, we were going actually we were 20 miles behind the lines, and we saw these

 

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rocks, what we thought were rocks on the ridge above us. And then the captain said, those are Chinese. So, I bailed out of the jeep with my rifle, and he bailed out too. And, they, one guy came down by the grave, they buried the dead up on top of the ground and there was

 

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one Chinese come down by there and hid behind it and took a few shots at me, and I shot at him. And neither one of us could hit the broadside of a barn, luckily. And he got out and run when I run out of ammunition. So, I had bandoliers of ammunition on my .50 caliber machine gun, but I didn’t think to grab one when I took off. Anyway, went all the way up into reserve and

 

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by then the Chinese were up by the reserve. So, Captain Edward got on the 50 and started shooting on a saddle in the mountains. And you could see guys fall once in a while, but they didn’t really duck because they had those little white packets of powder that they used cocaine, I suppose. And we found a lot of that stuff.

 

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I never used any of it, but I think that’s probably why they never ducked or fell down when they were marching across a ridge. But then the end of that we stayed reserve.

I:     You were jeep driver, but how come? Were you in sort of very close contact with the Chinese? How?

C:     Well, I

 

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don’t really know how close it was, probably 500 yards, 300 yards anyway. But when they were on the ridge, were probably within 100 yards of them. I had two ROKs with me that were put with me to

 

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be able to speak Korean to the English. One that’s going to be a veterinarian.

I:     Remember where you were? In the west or right, east?

C:     On the peninsula?

I:     Yeah.

C:     Well, probably about the middle because I remember for some reason we had bar position, which I think was about the middle of the peninsula,

 

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and we had to travel all night to the east coast to back up a company over there that the Chinese were attacking. So were probably about in the middle of the peninsula.

I:     Was it Iron Triangle?

C:     Yeah, it could have been close to that somewhere. We didn’t even think of those things at that time.

I:     Right.

C: Just like I didn’t think of the

 

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cold until I read the book of the Korean War and it was 63 below zero. I knew it was cold, but nobody knew how cold it was.

I:     Where did you sleep?

C:     What’s that?

I:     Where did you sleep?

Female Voice:     Where did you sleep?

C:     In a sleeping bag.

I:     Sleeping bag?

C:     Yeah. On the ground.

 

I: Not in the bunker?

 

C: Oh,

 

00:20:30
C: If I could find a foxhole, usually I tried to find one the Chinese dug because they did a better job of digging than we did. So, I’d always try and find a hole that’s been dug ahead of me. I didn’t want to dig one. I’m lazy. But one foxhole I had that they dug was, they’re small people because they dug this around a boulder, and I had to sleep around the

 

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rock. But it was better than to sleeping on top of the ground. But one reason my mother sent me a little 25 automatic. I had a 45, but I wanted a 25 in my bag because at that time the Chinese were carrying guys off in their sleeping bags, taking them prisoner, and I wasn’t going to let that happen to me. So, I always carried a

 

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gun in my sleeping bag because the Chinese are quiet. They didn’t have half the equipment we did, but they beat the heck out of us, I mean when we retreated. When they first hit us and we retreated, we’d get in our trucks and cars and drive for half a night, and they’d hit us the next day. All they had was walking

 

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and mules and pack rats were packed, so they didn’t have much. All they had was the clothes they sleep in. They didn’t even have a sleeping bag. They were quilted just like a sleeping bag. But they didn’t sleep. They slept in them and fought in them.

I:     Wow.

C:     Tough people.

I:     Tough people. Yeah.

 

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What did you eat? Did you eat hot meal?

C:     What’s that?

I:     What did you eat? Did you eat hot meal?

C:     C Rations.

 

I:     C Rations.

C:    Yeah.

I:     What was your favorite?

C:     Well, probably franks and beans. I hated hash because my dad had hash during the Depression,

 

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and I hated hash, so I never ate hash. But I liked, the spaghetti wasn’t bad and the franks and beans. And I didn’t smoke, so I could trade my cigarettes for candy. So, I had plenty of candy bars and stuff besides whenever it came up.

I:     How much were you paid? You how much you were paid?

C:     How much I was paid?

I:     Yeah.

C:     Oh, boy,

 

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I can’t remember. Do you remember what my pay was?

 

Female Voice: You sent part of it to me because we were married.

I:     You were married?

C:     Yeah. We got married just before I went to Korea.

Lola: We were married the first day of April of 1950.

C:     April Fool’s Day.

 

I: 1950?

 

L: Mmm humm.

I:     So, your marriage was not real?

 

L:     Yes, it was real.

I:     Married on April Fool’s Day.

00:24:00

C:     I was fooling, she wasn’t.

L:     We didn’t know what day it was.

I:     Come on.

 

L:     Really. I never even thought about it.

 

C:     Me Either.

L:     Being the 1^st of April Fool’s Day when were married.

I:     What a choice you made.

L:     Well, were going to get married, and we just got married in the church and my sister and her husband were with us.

I:     Yeah, so, but you didn’t know when you married

 

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that he would go to Korean War. So…

C:     It was before the war.

I:     Yeah. So, when he knew that he was going to go to Korea for war, what was your reaction, Lola?

L:     Well, I didn’t like it.

I:     What did you say to him?

Lola:    Well, I couldn’t stop him. He was already in the military, and I knew he had to go.

I:     Were you able to talk to him over the phone?

Lola:     No, just

 

00:25:00

letters is all we had.

I:     How often did you write the letter to Carl?

L:     Well, I don’t remember, but every few days at least. Regularly while he was in the service.

C:     Did he write letter back to you?

 

L:     Yes, yes.

 

I:     How often?

L:     Same. I get a letter and write back and then he would write. So, he wrote quite often.

I:     So, he was writing letter all the time.

 

00:25:30

Didn’t work too much.

L:     I don’t know when he found the time, but he did write a lot.

I:     Carl, do you remember that you were writing letter back to Lola?

C:     Not very often, but I wrote as often as I could.

I:     Do you remember the Korean soldier or Korean people that used to work with you?

C:     Oh, yeah, I’ve got pictures of them.

I:     You were in the Kansas line?

C:     Yeah, Kansas line.

 

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It was a defense position in case the Chinese run us back that far.

I:     Right.

C:     Just another job.

I:     When did you leave Korea?

C:     When did I leave?

L:     I think you were there 14 months. I think you were there 14 months.

C:     Yeah, I was.

L:     If you were on the front line, you got to go home earlier. If you weren’t, you had to stay.

00:26:30
14 months.

 

C:     Got extended period.

I:     So, you left around early 1952 or late 1951?

C:     No, it would be 52.

 

I:     52.

C:     Yeah.

 

I:     Yeah.

 

C:     Because I was there. It was just four months. Two months?

I:     Yeah.

C:     I don’t know. It’s hard to

 

00:27:00

remember. It’s uh

I:    What was the most difficult thing during your service in Korea?

 

C:     Well,

 

I:     Missing your wife?

C:     That would be. But then, one of the happiest times

 

I:     Yeah

 

C:    was when I went down to get the mail for the company, and on the way back, I read the mail

 

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because a friend of mine was driving, and I found out that I had a daughter. And I was happy as a lark going back to camp because I found out that she’d had a daughter while I was in Korea.

I:     So, you got your daughter when you were in Korea?

C:     Yeah, she was nine months old before I came home.

 

L:     She was seven months old.

I:     What’s her birthday?

C:     It’s, uh

 

00:28:00

July

 

C:     6, 1950.

L:      51

C:     How come I have 50 out there?

I:     So, you were pregnant before he left for Korea?

 

L:     Right.

 

I:     Wow.

L:     Just barely.

I:     Barely? Yeah. That’s amazing.

C:     Well, in a way, it was

 

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kind of planned just in case I didn’t come back.

I:     All right, come on. But did you get the picture of your daughter?

L:     Yes, I did.

I:     In Korea. You sent the picture.

 

L:     I sent the picture.

 

I:     How was it, Carl, to see the picture of your daughter in Korea?

 

C:    Well, I didn’t have pictures.

L:     I sent you pictures.

 

C:     First thing?

 

L:    Right.

C:     What did I do with it? Must be in my billfold.

 

I:     Come on.

 

00:29:00

C:     My memory is not good either.

I:     So, you must have seen it and yep. That’s an amazing story. So, after you come back, have you been back to Korea?

L:     One time.

C:     One time. When?

 

L:    When we went, I think seven years ago now when we went back, uh.

C:     This Eden Church

 

L:     Took two people from every state, and how were lucky enough to be the two people from Washington, I don’t know.

I:     Two of you went together? So,

 

L:     As a group, and we met up with everybody after we got there, and we had five days and six nights in Korea.

I:     Carl, tell me when you were in Korea. 2015, seven years ago. How was it?

 

C: Oh,

00:30:00

World of difference, because there were no buildings, hardly standing when I went through Seoul the first time up. And the Korean people have done a fantastic job. They, uh, it’s unbelievable what they have done. And they’re the most thankful people that you’ve ever met.

L:    It was a beautiful city.

 

00:30:30

It was very clean. Every place we went, I never saw any litter around. I was really impressed.

I:     Excellent.

L:     I was.

I:     So, it was worth for you to miss your husband for a while?

L:     Well, I don’t know if I would say that, but it was wonderful that I got to go back and see where he was, although it was not the same

 

00:31:00

I:     Excellent.

 

L:      anymore.

I:     What about you, Carl? What would you say to the Korean people who are watching this interview?

C:     You’ll never find a bunch of better people, as far as I know. I’ll take them over some of the people we got in this country today. We’ve got some sad people in this country today.

I:     Are you proud of

 

00:31:30

yourself as a Korean War veteran?

C:     Oh, you bet,

 

L:    Carl’s very patriotic.

C:     I am.

 

I:    Very patriotic, yes.

C:     Yep. I’ve always been that way and always will be.

 

I:     Alrighty.

 

C:     I’m ready to fight now.

 

I:     Alrighty.

I:     Any other comments that you want to leave to this interview, Lola, about your doll?

 

00:32:00
L:     No. I do have a doll collection of over 300 dolls.

 

I: 300.

 

L: 300.

I:     Where are you going to leave this? Into the museum?

L:     To my two daughters.

I:     Two daughters?

L:     Whatever they want to do with them.

I:     Alrighty.

L:     Keep them or get rid of them or whatever.

I:     Can I take a picture? Alrighty. Thank you so much. Again, Carl, thank you very much for your service. Honorable service.

 

C:     Well,

 

I:    Because of your fight,

 

00:32:30

there is a Korea.

C:     Well, it was just a job, and everybody did it in their best. And I was lucky that I had Captain Edward to get me straight and to keep me thinking. Good, because best officer you’d ever meet. And it’s a shame that the military never got it in their Third Division books,

 

00:33:00

because he was a fighter. When he took a line company, I think it was I Company, he finally got a line company. The Chinese hit him and run him off the hill, but he went up and rounded about 60 guys back and took the hill back. And he wasn’t saying, go get’em. He was saying, come on, because he was in the lead when they did it.

 

00:33:30

Man was terrific. And that’s part of the war I’ll never forget. And it’s a shame that he was forgotten by the 3rd Division because didn’t put him in the book, because.

I:     Do you know why he was not included in the book?

C:     I have no idea. Because he’d been a battlefield commission commander by Patton

 

00:34:00

himself, and yet he didn’t get mentioned in the book.

I:     What’s his name again? Could you spell it?

C:     Captain Francis T. Edward was his name. And I heard from his daughter because I was looking for him, and she found me through the Korean veterans’ thing where you’re looking for people, and she wrote me. And

 

00:34:30

he’d been the head of the Salvation Army back where he lived and everything since the war. And quite a man.

I:     Yep. Thank you for mentioning that. And so that you are honor him, and we remember. Okay?

C:     Well, I hope you put him in there because there’s no better commander than what he was, because he was a born fighter. He wanted to be where the action

 

00:35:00

was.

I:     Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

C:     You’re welcome.

I:     Thank you, Lola.

 

L:    You’re welcome.

 

 

[End of Recorded Material]