Ben Schrader Jr.

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B:        My name is Ben Schrader, Jr.

I:          Spell that for me.

B:        SCHRADER, Ben Schrader.

I:          Okay.
B:        And I’m from, originally from Rosenberg, Texas.  I was born December the 26^th, 1929, in Lumberton, Mississippi.

I:          Almost a Christmas baby.

B:        But my father, a World War I veteran, lost his job.

 

0:00:30

And here a family of four leaving Mississippi for South Texas.  So, I was raised just south part of Houston and completed my school years down there, graduated from Rosenberg High School in 1946.  From there, I went to Texas A & M College and graduated from A & M in Chemical Engineering in 1951.

 

0:01:09

I:          Alright.  So, tell  me, were you enlisted, were you drafted.  Kind of tell me how you became involved in the military.

B:        Okay. I, Texas A & M as you know, was a military school.  And I did have four years of ROTC, two years basic and then two years specialty and engineering or in the Chemical Corp.  So, I, upon graduation, I received a commission as a Second Lieutenant in the U.S. Army Chemical Corp.  And this would have been in say April of 19151.  From there, I was employed, got employment with Gulf Oil Corporation as a chemical engineer in Port Arthur, Texas.

 

0:01:59

Well, that lasted about two months when Uncle Sam called me on active duty into the Army and the Korean War.

I:          You were officially drafted.

B:        So, no.  I was called on active duty because of my commission in the Reserve.

I:          Okay.

B:        So, I was refused deferment for a time and was sent to the Army Chemical Center in Maryland.

 

0:02:31

As a Second Lieutenant in a chemical maintenance company.  I was there for about four months in Maryland at the chemical maintenance and went to the Chemical Corp School down in Fort McLellan, Alabama, completed a mortar course and chemical officer’s course and was shipped and assigned foreign duty to Korea which would have been March of 1952.

 

0:03:05

So, I had about 10 days leave and shipped off to Sasebo, Tokyo from Fort Lawton up in Washington State.  And I arrived in Korea, it would have been April of 1952.  I was, shall I continue?
I:          Yeah.  You’re doing great.

B:        I was on a troop ship, and we, after about a 30-hour train ride to Seoul, we arrived, and it was

 

0:03:42

I:          Thirty hours?
B:        About 30, well, we kept getting sidetracked for priority trains going up to the front.  And so we went, and we were allowed.  But from there, I went over to Inchon and was assigned as a Lieutenant in the smoke generator, 4^th Battalion, a smoke generator chemical corp.

I:          What was your impression when you arrived into Korea?

 

0:14:11

B:        I beg your pardon?
I:          What was your impression when you arrived in Korea?  What did you think?

B:        Uh, it was one thing that I noted when I arrived there, sixty years later.  We arrived at the

Railroad station. And beautiful, it would have been a beautiful, like downtown New York.  But there was no roof.  Instead of 17 parallel tracks, there were only three.  And that was to unload the people.

 

0:04:38

And no roof to it.  And so, when I went back the sixtieth year, I said I’ve got to see the railroad station.  Well, all there is is the façade.  It’s still there, but it’s a lot of modern buildings and all.  But that was in my mind that this beautiful railroad station with no roof and nothing.  But maybe it got sent to Inchon and the smoke generator company is, we had three platoons.

 

0:05:09
One was to smoke in the harbor at Inchon for air attacks.  Another platoon was in Seoul for the bridges over the river in case of air attacks.  And the third was a forward unit, forward platoon.  We were assigned to the combat engineers.  And that was to lay in smoke screens as they laid in pontoon bridges across a river.  So I was, once again, active combat with combat engineers, and we would go in, lay in the smoke screens.  The battalion would lay in the pontoon bridges, and we would leave.

 

0:05:48

The most significant thing to that was we were hoping they had cleared the  mines out of the river bottoms because we were right on top of them.  And it was sort of a testing of hoping they did the work for us not to have a problem laying in the smoke screens.

I:          That there wasn’t any live ones, yeah.

B:        Yes.  But we were successful.  But I was there only about three months.

 

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We had two operations during that time.  And I was reassigned to the Second Chemical Mortar Battalion over on the far east coast there as a platoon leader in the 4.2 mortars.  The Korean Infantry did not have the heavy 4.2 mortars.  We were an independent battalion.  And therefore, we were assigned to the Korean Infantry.

 

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Actually, we were U.S and the artillery supported us.  But we were always in support of the Korean Infantry for the heavy mortar battalion.

I:          Can you elaborate on that exactly?  What do you mean assigned to the Korean Infantry?  Were you working closely with the

B:        As a Lieutenant platoon leader, we’ve really two purposes.

 

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One is the platoon leader and the firing of the mortars.  And the other is a forward observer.  And that would be, we have the two officers in a platoon, and one would be up on the hill we called which was a foreign observation post that was with an Infantry unit.  And this could have been anything from a battalion to a regimental level, depending on the amount of fighting that was going on at the time.  We would spend anywhere from like 10 to 12 days as a forward observer working with the Infantry, calling back fire missions to the units.

 

0:08:07

One thing of note for the Second Chemical, we were always in support of the Korean Infantry, and we did have problems with communication. But it was, they were fairly nominal is that for a fire mission, the U.S. Army taught the Koreans the use of Arabic numerals.  And you look at many Arabic numerals, this is the numbers that we use here in the States.  Rather than Korean numbers and characters, they actually used one, two, three numbers.

 

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So, we taught them map reading.  So fortunately, our communication for fire missions, we could get our maps set up, read the coordinates, and do a fire mission.  The same thing at night.  Should there be any significant attack in our communications with the Infantry is that they could tell us the size of the attack, once again using Arabic numerals, so we could tell if it were Infantry or battalion or even a major regimental attack by the numbers of men they anticipated coming in.

 

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So, that was a very serious thing that we learned and being able to communicate with the people during that time.  It was extremely appreciative.  They did not have the heavy mortars.  They were extremely useful as that, we actually had the mortars to explode, actually in trajectory.  The fuse on it is that you could do one of two things.

 

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If the Infantry and the enemy were attacking us, we would want the explosive to go off mid-air for the best, you know, demolition.  And so, we had the fuses is of a BT fuse, and that would have had a .05 second delay so they would actually go off before hitting the ground.  The other way is that if you’re firing into a bunker, you want it to penetrate.

 

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And so actually you would have a delay fuse.  So, this was once again communication as to what we were firing upon.  And working this out with the Koreans.

I:          Where were you stationed?
B:        I was stationed, this was on the front lines.  The main line of resistance, and we moved with the Infantry.  We were in combat unit 24 hours a day, whether we were on the front as a foreign observer or we were less than 500 yards behind the main line of resistance.

 

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In most instances, we could observe where the main line was from our positions when we got fired on. That was the duty of the foreign observer and the platoon leader.

I:          So, tell me a little bit more about your occupation.  I’m still starting to understand what was your specific role.

B:        What was what?
I:          What was your specific role? What was your specific responsibility for the mortar battalion?

 

0:11:40

B:        For the mortar battalion was two-fold as I described, as a platoon leader.  This was to maintain the enlisted men in the fire mission.  It was working with the company commander for supplies, of getting supplies, sufficient supplies for the platoon. It was a case of moving out.  And once we would move into a new position, it could be at 2:00 in the morning in the middle of the night.

 

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And here we are laying in the mortars in order to be able to support the Infantry by 0500 hours.  So, this was the platoon leader all the time was working with the men and the mortars in their positions.  The other was a foreign observer that’s working with the infantry in order to perform our mission which was fire missions and to destroy the enemy, and that was either in a movement of activity or if it was in place in bunker positions.

 

0:12:43

I:          So, rewind for me real quick.  Had you heard of Korea before you were sent there?
B:        Had I been what now?
I:          Had you heard of Korea, the country?
B:        Had I ever been to Korea?
I:          Had you heard of it?  Did you  know where it was?
B:        Oh, had I heard of Korea?
I:          Um hm.

B:        Um, no.  Uh, only once I got in, was called on active duty, and then I got into the school, it was obviously I was going to Korea.  And so, no.

 

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Korea, in fact, on the troop ship going over from Fort Lawton there in Washington State, it was about 12 hours.  And each morning they would play on the loud system Japanese words, (INAUDIBLE) good morning, uh, and words like this.  But here we are going to Korea.  They did not have any Korean disc for us to learn any Korean at all.

 

0:13:42

So, when we got there, Korea was just a combat zone.  We landed.

I:          Did you know there was a war going on?
B:        It was a war zone from the day we got on the train to Seoul to my time in Inchon, to my time, we were in combat the full time I was in Korea.

 

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If you heard of the point system in the Army, they had points per month.  One point per month to four points per month.  And when you got 36 points, you were subject to rotation.  And so, the regular Army being Stateside, they’d get one point a month, 36 months, three years, and get a reassignment.  This was normal.

 

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But now that you’re in Japan, if you’re overseas, two points a month.  If you’re in Korea and they told me it was three points.  But if you’re on the main line in combat, it was four points per month.  You get 36 points, and you get to come home or rotated out.  Well, our unit was getting four points per month cause we were in combat.

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So that way, a lot of us were as little as 10 – 12 months, and we were being reassigned.  Whereas others with the full three years that they were back in another location.  So, by going our four points a month, we were in combat.  And so, this was our full-time leave.  The battalion never got off the front line.  We were there the whole time.

 

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Supplies, supporting the Infantry.

I:          So, nine months straight usually.

B:        Yeah, so I was, I got pulled out, did get to go to R and R back five days to Tokyo.  So once again, I reverted back to only having two or three months.  So, I was one year in Korea.  I got there like in March, then left in April.

 

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March of ’50, April of ’52 and left in April of ’53.

I:          So being on the front lines for nine months, that had to have been pretty dangerous.  Can you

B:        Oh, the front lines.

I:          Um hm, for about nine months and

B:        Well actually, a year’s time.

I:          For the entire year.

B:        Even when I was in the Smoke Generator Company.  I was the combat engineer in combat.

I:          Oh wow.

B:        Laying in, we were right there in front of the Infantry laying in for the Infantry to cross the bridges.

 

0:16:32

B:        So, I was getting my four points even when I was in the Smoke outfit.
I:          I see.

B:        So then in the mortars, you’re either on the front lines or you’re firing from the front lines.

I:          How much were you getting paid to be out there?
B:        Pardon?
I:          How much were you getting paid to be out there?

B:        I think a Lieutenant’s pay was something like $200 a month.

I:          Was that enough to support you?

B:        Well, uh, you didn’t have money.

 

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You were given rations.  Your money went back to the States.  Cigarettes were free. I mean, they came in C-rations.  We were given C-rations, and everything was supplied by the military:  Clothes and all.  So, money was insignificant to what was going on.

I:          Tell me about the clothing you wore.

 

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B:        Hm?
I:          Tell me about the clothing that you wore.

B:        Oh.  It was, well yeah.  We got rid of all of our Class A’s in Tokyo before we went to Korea.  So therefore, everything was combat.  Fatigues.  And you wore them as much as, on the hill as much as 10 days at a time.  You’d be up there.  And for cold weather, you used charcoal to heat and cook.  And you can imagine after 10 days, water was extremely scarce because it was whatever you carried up there.

 

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And it was used to brush your teeth and drinking.  And so, you were in the same clothing basically for about 10 – 12 days at a time.  You would come back, first thing you’d like to do is find a shower unit somewhere back at the artillery place or somewhere. And one of them during the wintertime.

 

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They had set up this tent, platoon tent.  And they drove this truck in, a deuce and a half, 2 ½ tone truck.  Had a water container on it.  And they drilled holes in the rails, so they pumped water and you’d have water squirting out for the shower heads.  So, they had wood planks.  You’re standing on there buck naked in a tent, and they drove the truck under, 20 degrees.

I:          Oh my goodness.

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B:        Temperature, mind you.  And here’s this 140-degree water squirting on you. So, you were everything from a lobster to, but you had this grime and filth on you from charcoal and, you know, you were there freezing your tail off and scrubbing away just to get through that shower.  But it felt so good.  And then you’d put dirty, all those dirty clothes on. And, but you were good for another 10 days.

I:          Every 10 days.  Good thing there weren’t too many ladies around.

 

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B:        It was quite an experience is the shower heads of doing this time.  So, as I said, water was scarce because whatever you took on the hill, you had to carry.  You had to carry with you.

I:          (INAUDIBLE) So that must have , (INAUDIBLE) a little bit unpleasant memory I guess then experience, only being able to shower once every 10 days and.  What were some other unpleasant memories that you encountered?

 

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B:        Did you say pleasant?

I:          You can tell me both pleasant and unpleasant.

B:        Pleasant and unpleasant memories.  There was really, oh God, You’re up on the hill, and you’re supporting the Koreans. We have our C-rations.  And when we would first go up, we’d stop by the kitchen, and we’d pick up onions, raw onions and potatoes.  Now mind you, these were, you know, out of the kitchen there.

 

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Because you could go up there with those C-rations, all cans and everything heating up.  But just to eat a onion, a fresh onion with that hamburger or whatever the ration was, and the first to eat, raw potatoes.  We didn’t make the potatoes.  We ate raw potatoes and raw onions.  Oh, they were just so good after those C-rations.  And so that was a treat for us.  Now back at the unit, it was called B-rations, and they did have ham, potatoes, dried eggs, you know, a lot of C-ration stuff.

 

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But on the hill, it was strictly out of a can.  And that experience as the Koreans and the Infantry, and they were getting double rations.  But it would be like a wall of rice, cooked rice with hunks of fish in it cause they were rations.  And they were always offering it to us, you know.  Their appreciation for us, I mean, it was almost a point of love.

 

0:21:33

As a thank you.  Well, we were in the fire we, firepower we gave them and the support we gave them, they would do really anything.  And of course, us giving them the leftover C-rations, it was just like a magnificent banquet you would say.  So, the food was, it was C-rations.  Back at the unit, it was somewhat better.

 

0:21:59

It was never, the food was sustainable.  You had to have calories to survive.  So that was it.  Cold, we’d get through with our charcoal blazers and everything.  And we suffered with the Koreans.  And a common denominator there, too, was to suffer together, physically when we were joined.  So, there was an appreciation.  The Koreans could not do enough for us.

 

0:22:28

They were so appreciative. Whatever was required to support us, they did.  So those were good moments.  But it was, once again communication was oftentimes a problem.

I:          It’s true for many veterans that they came back home, and they didn’t speak of their experience.  Do you think that that could be a reason why the Korean War is known as the Forgotten War is because people didn’t talk about it?

 

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B:        Know that Forgotten War to me, was I don’t know exactly how to say it because all of sudden Viet Nam.  Viet Nam lasted what, 7 -10 years.  I mean here we are, just getting out of World War II.  They were still getting out.  Some of them being called back in, they, quickly.  And so, it was just something that happened so quickly.

 

0:23:27

And then all of a sudden, and that was a three-year period. Essentially, it’s about a three-year, ’50 –  ’53.

I:          Yeah.

B:        Period. And then all of a sudden here’s this Viet Nam coming up, and that thing was what, 10 years or whatever.  And so, all of a sudden, here’s the celebration of the end of World War II and all the hell that went with it.  And the loving and coming home and getting to work, and this was maybe a blip on the radar screen to so many.

 

0:23:58

And in recent talks, I mean just, being of course a Korean veteran, that maybe is more sensitive to me maybe than others.  And if somebody talks about oh, World War II and the end of World War II and everything and then Viet Nam that came along, Korea was not even mentioned.  And how many thousands were killed in that three-year time?

 

0:24:27

What the purpose was in the defense of Communism that really the biggest picture there was not this nominal war of the country that you don’t even know about.  The Japanese had control of it for 35 years.  The Koreans refused to speak Japanese.  They’d been under suppression for, they didn’t want to speak Japanese.  They wanted to speak Korean or English.  They tried to learn English faster than they did Japanese.  So uh, no.  The Forgotten, it is so often forgotten.

 

0:25:05

I:          It’s also kind of interesting.

B:        But not with those involved.

I:          Right.  Or the families.

B:        Or the Korean people.  That just blows my mind, the appreciativeness. It was like the exposure from the three-year old one generation to the 18-year-old generation to these people here.  They’re exposing their love to us, and that just blew my mind.

 

0:25:35

I:          Do you think it’s important for younger generations to know about the Korean War and its’ contribution and sacrifices that were made?
B:        I do. And to show the Korean people are appreciative. To me, you look back at World War II and how appreciative are the French and how appreciative were the Italians and this.

 

0:26:02

But you  look at the Koreans, and they have been what, 60 years, thanking us for their survival, and they’re continuing to do it. We had three banquets here in Houston this year for appreciation to the American people and specifically to us veterans.  Name me one other country that has shown this kind of appreciation from World War II or Viet Nam or any other war we’ve been in.

 

0:26:40

And look at that nation now and how strong it is.

I:          It’s really incredible.
B:        I talk too much.

I:          No, I love it.  So have you been back to Korea?
B:        Did I go back?
I:          Um hm.

B:        Yeah, that’s what I was telling you.  I went back.  The only thing that would keep me from going back is the 16-hour plane ride.  That is atrocious.  But as I said, they treated us so generously and lovingly.

 

0:27:16

For those five days, it was, you know, just a manicured thing.  And they were doing all of the, like I said, they were exposing all of the generations to us and they’re appreciativeness.  And

I:          How, whenever you returned to Korea and you saw how much it had changed, what were you thinking?

B:        I was not in the same country.  No.  As I said, when I went into Seoul that time and the shell of the railroad terminal was there, there was only one bridge across the river.

 

0:27:51

I mean, there must be 35 of them now.  I go out to Inchon there in Seoul, (INAUDIBLE).  This was my Smoke Generator outfit.  A little out of (INAUDIBLE) is the airport, International Airport. And I’m sitting out there in the Smoke Generator Company and the high tide comes in, and you’ve heard of the Mud Flats and everything over there. And there was this causeway to get us back and forth.  So, then I’m landing at this International Airport at (INAUDIBLE) that was  nothing.

 

0:28:18

Mud Flats.  I go to Seoul and it’s nothing but a tremendous brand-new city.  There was nothing there.  And so, like I said, the efforts and the working of the people and their industry and love for the U.S., I’ll probably go back if I live long enough.  Even with my 16-hour airplane ride.

I:          You’re looking like you’re in good shape.  So, I hope you get the chance to and the opportunity.

 

0:28:53

I:          I have a question for you.  So, what do you think we need to do or the Korean government needs to do to put a closure on the war because technically we’re still in a war?  It was just a cease fire.  What do you think we need to put a closure on it and end hostility completely?

B:        Well, until there is peace, I don’t know that there is because there’s still that war zone.  There’s still this threat of North Korea with their rockets and their inner, ICBMs.

 

0:29:26

There’s, I don’t think there’ll ever be a, it was like the Cold War with Russia.  For all those years, we are Korea, and there was still potential combat over there with the nuclear system.  But until that was defused, we were literally had thousands of troops in Europe, you know, with all of the nuclear stuff.  And so here we are in Korea, and there’s North Koreans, and they have the bombs.  So, until there’s a resolution there, of course with China supporting them,

 

0:30:02

That’s apparently never gonna get done.  But

I:          Would you support a reunification if it were possible?

B:        Say that one again.

I:          Would you support a reunification if it were possible?
B:        Oh.  God yes.  You just saw me here.  I thought it was a GI and a South Korean.  But it was a South and North, in their hunger, and we heard (INAUDIBLE)

 

0:30:32

But in the homes, out in the countryside, these luncheons that we would have.  Is the hunger even of the, I mean these are the people that are, you know, minimum wage huh, that are talking about reunification.  So that’s a whole country that’s desirous of that and that they would do whatever possible.

0:31:00

And fortunately, the U.S. is in support of this.  With literally thousands of troops that are there.  You should see  how Americanized Korea is.  I mean with hot dog stands and the hamburger joints and oh.  You can get off that airplane, and because they use Arabic numerals, not Oriental, and you can see Interstate highways, you can actually travel around Korea and not speak Korean.

 

0:31:31

Love and thank you.  I guess that’s about it.

 

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