[Beginning of recorded material]
J: Well, my name is Jagd, Svend. Er, I have a longer name which I doesn’t use very much. But I don’t know whether you’ll have my full name.
I: Yes, please.
J: Uh, then it’s Svend, S-V-E-N-D, Von
I: Um hm.
J: Uh, uh, Fallton Jagd, Jagd, uh, J-A-G-D.
I: Right. And what is your birthday?
J: My birthday is 28th of, uh, September. That is, uh, one week, uh, ago I turned, uh, 94 years old.
I: What year were you born?
I: What year were you born?
J: Uh, 1924.
I: Nineteen twenty-four. So you are 94 year old.
I: It’s hard to believe that.
You look too young.
J: Oh, well uh, that, that is, that’s correct. It, it is my birthday.
I: Wow. It’s amazing. And, uh, we were at the Korean Embassy in Copenhagen, Denmark, and you introduced all these unbelievable stories how the Danish doctors, nurses and all other soldiers and persons like you did for Korea.
And so it was amazing story. What do you think about this whole thing? I mean have you been back to Korea?
J: Well, what do I think? First of all, I think it was a nasty, uh, story when, uh, North Korea, uh, uh, uh, all of, all of a sudden, uh, uh, uh, uh, oh, sorry, um, my English is not as
good as it used to be. Uh, when they, when they crossed the, the border to South Korea,
J: And, uh, South Korea was not at all, uh, prepared for it, uh, because, uh, uh, among other things, there was that, uh, United States, uh, uh, had refused to give, uh, more material to South Korea because they were afraid that, uh,
it could intrigue, uh, North Korea, uh, to declare war. But they declared nothing. They just crossed the border and, uh, in a very short time they, uh, took Seoul. And it was terrible because, uh, there were immense, uh, lot of, uh, uh, South Korean soldiers which were killed there. They were not prepared,
prepared to, to, uh, take a war. But, uh,
I: But, but focus on what you did and Jutlandia Hospital ship. What do you think of the whole thing after all those years?
J: Uh, well I, I think it, it was when, when the, uh, uh, when the message came from, uh, United Nations. They, uh, uh, told, uh, countries to, to help South Korea.
And, uh, according to, I don’t, I’m not quite sure it’s correct, but according to Korean, uh, uh, to Korea, South Korea, uh, Denmark should have been the first, uh, country which promised to help, uh, Korea. But of course, because it was, uh, in the middle of the Cold War, uh, we had to be very careful not to, uh,
what would you call it, irritate or, or, uh, uh, come into, into, uh, problems with Russia which, in fact, only were, uh, about, uh, quarter of an hour from Denmark with, uh, planes and, uh, half an hour with landing ship. So they could easily, uh, if, uh, repress them. So that was,
that’s a reason that the ship actually was, uh, uh, was laid under the, uh, Foreign Ministry instead of what it should have been the Defense Ministry. But, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the Foreign Ministry and Red, Dan, uh, Danish Red Cross, uh, decided finally that, uh, uh, Denmark should set, could set a, send a, uh, a, a ship,
uh, uh, uh, aarr, uh, arrange all the, or repair them, uh, as a hospital. And um, the ship was, at that time, on it’s way to New York. And, uh, when it arrived to New York, the, the key was full of journalists, and the Captain was very, uh, uh, uh, uh, what, what, uh,
MALE VOICE: Surprised.
J: Sur, oh, surprised, yeah. It was very surprised because he knew nothing about what was happening, uh. But, uh, then it was deci, decided that this ship, Jutlandia, should return to, to Copenhagen as soon as possible, uh, to be restored or, and, uh, changed to a hospital ship. And, um, uh,
that was in, uh, in, uh, I can’t [INAUDIBLE] September until, I think it was in, in September, uh, so, uh, it, uh, returned to Denmark and, uh, immediately sent to the shipyard which was owned, in fact, by, uh, East Asiatic Company, uh. And, um, uh, it was repair,
it was changed, built up as a, as a hospital, uh, in, uh, 2 ½ months only. But, uh, it was the same shipyard which, uh, years ago, 1932, had built, uh, the Jutlandia. So they had the old papers and old drawings. So immediately, uh, a long time before the ship arrived to, to Denmark again, uh, they had prepared
the shipyard to immediately to, to start. And um, they, uh, uh, changed the, the ship so that finally when it was ready to send to Korea, it was, in fact, the most modern hospital in Ko, in Denmark. So it left, uh, Copenhagen the, the Capital city of Denmark. It left Copenhagen the 23rd of January in 1951.
And, uh, unfortunately I can’t remember when they arrived. But, uh, about, uh, three, three, four months, uh, later, they, uh, arrived to Pusan and they contacted to the, the Allied, uh, Forces in, uh, in Korea and, uh,
were ordered to, to, uh, go to Yukosko, in Japan and, uh, there we got a lot of material and, uh, uh, uh, various things what, that, uh, was specially American but were, but we would have to use, uh, when we came to Korea. So we continued then a few, after a few days, we sailed for Pusan and, uh,
we, uh, built up the first, uh, place we could, uh, work as a hospital. And Pusan, uh, as it was through the rest of the War, there were also two American hospital ships, uh, in the, in those places. So the ship was laying in Pusan for the first two
trips which we called it, uh, uh, about Jutlandia because the Allied Command, uh, two times, one, two, three, two times, uh, sent the ship to, uh, to, not to, not only to Europe but also to Ethiopia, to Turkey, uh, with wounded soldiers.
I: Very interesting that it wasn’t the Ministry of Defense,
but it was Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
I: Because of the relationship with Russia.
J: Well, we was afraid to, to make Russia angry that we, uh, well it, it showed, later it showed that, uh, Russia were more, uh, working in, in, uh, uh, well, uh, uh, oh, it’s all [INAUDIBLE]
I can’t, uh, well, it was more engaged in, uh, in the War, uh, on North Korea’s side, uh, than we had expected. So, uh, of course they were not, uh, very [INAUDIBLE] that we helped South Korea.
I: Yes. And what was the, uh, tell me more about the East Asiatic Company briefly. What was it?
J: Uh, well East Asiatic Company, uh, well let’s take
Jutlandia was built as a combined cargo and passenger ship. So it was ideal for, for the, the, uh, uh,
J: For, for the, as a, as a hospital. And, uh, the East Asiatic has, uh, been engaged in Far East for many, many years since 1800 and about,
uh, 90, uh, 85 or 90.
I: Um hm.
J: Uh, so, uh, uh, it was, uh, uh, well known in, in Far East. And, uh, they, they offer, they, uh, [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: They are.
J: Oh yes. They, they, uh, offered Jutlandia to, uh, U.N.
J: And, uh,
it was, uh,, accepted and, uh, uh,, the East Asiatic Company, uh, besides the shipping, it was, uh, uh, the biggest shipping firm in, uh, in, uh, Denmark at that time, uh. So, uh, uh, besides this, they had a lot of businesses around the world, uh, and, uh, many years later,
it was actually the, the, uh, biggest, uh, business firm in, uh, in, uh, Scandinavia.
I: Got it. So where were you born?
J: Where I was born?
J: I was born, uh, same place as, uh, Hans Christian Anderson in Odense.
J: Uh, but I didn’t know Hans Christian Anderson. But uh, I was born there, uh,
and, uh, later my father was an, uh, officer and, uh, he was moved to, after Odense, he was moved to Vepo and um, uh, in the meantime, uh, he, he was stationed for, for some time in, uh, in another, in another, uh, uh, medium-sized city, Colling.
It was, there was, uh, there is a cardinal, ruins of a castle. And uh there he met, uh, uh, a young lady, uh, who was [pieshaking], uh, and when she walked away, he, he, uh, uh, opened the, the, uh, so that all, all the air from the [pieshaking] went out. And when the, the frau came back,
uh, the, the [pie shaker] was flat. And he jumped so and help and, uh, uh did a lot. So they learned each other to, in that way. And, uh, then he was moved to, to Vepo.
I: Yeah. But
J: as, as officer.
I: Mr. Jagd, I don’t, we don’t have long. But I need to hear from you about the Jutlandia Hospital ship more, okay? So let me ask this question. What school did you go
through there? I mean, what kind of school did you go through?
J: Uh, well, uh, I, I went to, uh, private, private school, the, uh, when you saw the building next to the, uh, to the Embassy, uh, well it was an, an old part of it, uh. I, I worked, uh. But I, in fact,
I’ve gone to more schools, uh, than, uh, uh, uh, classes, uh, not because I was thrown out of the school. But my father was a
J: Uh, uh, uh, well, he was, he was not very easy, uh, to work with, uh. And he moved and he moved and, uh, I changed school every time.
J: Uh, so, uh, I’ve, I have, uh, been in many schools, uh. Fine, then I, uh, I denied it, uh, to watch my, my father who was extremely angry, uh, that I wouldn’t take a student , uh, uh, examination. So, uh, I took another examination. And then he, my father said, uh,
well, as, as uh, uh, uh, all other black ships uh, you can go to, to sea, uh. So he arranged that I was sent to a ship, uh. It was just, uh, uh, when they, World War II broke out and, uh. But he, he didn’t care much about that I was sent out with a ship with mines and bombs and all that. So uh,
it became, uh, very nice for me because I had it far better, uh, in the ship than I had with my father. My mother died when I was nine years old.
I: Oh boy.
J: So, uh, I only had my father to, to stick to, uh.
I: So when did you on board that ship, 1945 I mean 1941?
I: What did you do in the ship?
J: Well I, I was, uh, uh, I was just a, a, what would you say a, a, a cabin boy or something like that. So, uh, and that, that, uh, uh, that fit me quite well because I, I had it, I enjoyed it very much.
I: So you trained to be in the Jutlandia hospital ship from early time on.
J: Yes. I didn’t know, at that time I didn’t know anything called Jutlandia.
I: Yeah, right.
J: But, uh, I came, uh, home again and, um, because my eyes were not good enough, uh, to be a, an officer in the, in the ship. So I went to Elsinore and started training and schooling as
I: When was it?
J: Uh, well it was, uh, forty, that must have been about 1942, uh. And, uh, I took my bicycle my, my, uh, my back and the bicycle and I went off for Elsinore and found, uh, a rom
I could hire. So I did so and, uh, uh, I, I was rather interested and, uh, apparently, uh, I carried out my job in, uh, in a proper way, uh. And, uh, I took my first engineer examination, uh, in the, in the evening classes and
I: When was it?
J: Uh, well it, it was
continued from, uh, uh, forty
J: Uh, well yes. I, I think so. And, uh, uh, then, uh, uh, at that time the, uh, uh, the, the, Germany had, uh, occupied Denmark and, uh, I was, uh, became part of a, of a, of a group, uh, against, uh, uh, the Germans.
J: And, uh, then one, one evening, uh, on my way back I was caught walking, uh, because my bicycle was either stolen or they stole the, the wheels from the bicycle. So I had to walk. And then one evening when I was walking from, uh, from the engineer school and, uh, to my, to the, the, uh, the, uh, room I, uh,
had hired, uh, I was arrested by two Danish, uh, uh, who were traitors who had, uh, gone over to the German and, uh, I was arrested, and I was sent to a Gestapo and, but, uh, and I was in jail there for, uh, I was happy. It was only for, for,
for about one, one week, uh, because they, they had nothing, uh
I: On you
J: they couldn’t prove anything that I had done, uh, something, uh. And, uh, I was sent to another, uh, camp, uh, in, in the area around, uh, um, uh, Elsinore. And from there I was, uh, then
the Germans built, uh, a special camp in southern part of Jutland. And they moved so many
J: uh, so many people down there that, uh, they had to release me, uh, and so it was, it was very easy for me. I was, I was not, uh, I was no hero in that, uh,
because, uh, we were not, uh, we were not allowed to do any, any, uh, uh, kind of, of, uh, business against the Germans in Elsinore because the, uh, Elsinore and area around was the center, uh, for relief of the, um, [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: Holocaust.
MALE VOICE: Holocaust.
J: Yes, uh, the, the, uh, Holocaust. But uh, uh, on the, they were, uh, warned about, uh, uh, the, the German action. So they were sent out from all this area where fishing boats and rowing boats and other so they could come to Sweden. So, uh,
I: But, uh, [INAUDIBLE] um. Did you know anything about
Korea around that time?
I: Did you know where Korea was?
J: No, no. I must say no.
I: You didn’t’ learn anything about Korea from the school?
J: Actually not. There was a, there was a song at that time, uh, which gone something like, uh, uh, where is Korea? It’s a nice little country, uh, about east from Sweden. That was, uh,
all this song
I: There was a song like that?
J: Uh yes. There was a song, uh, like that.
I: What is the name of that song? Do you remember?
J: Uh, no, no.
J: No. Actually not. I think it was, uh, it was in a show or something like that.
I: Very interesting. There was a song like that.
J: Yes, uh. Uh, [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: Peninsula.
J: Ah, yeah, yeah.
I: Huh. So how did you
get into Jutlandia Hospital ship?
I: When was it, and how? Can you explain briefly?
J: Yes. Uh, I, after I, I, uh, as soon as I was released by Gestapo, I, uh, went to Copenhagen and, uh, went to school, to a higher school there and, uh, I took, uh, two more years. Altogether, I had seven years of education for, to be engineer.
And, uh, uh, then when, when finished and I had all my papers necessary, I went down to the East Asiatic Company.
J: And, uh, said well, I have all my papers here and, uh, I, I had reasonable, uh, nice papers, uh, and said I would like to join the, uh , East Asiatic Company, uh.
At that time, East Asiatic Company was the absolutely number one company, uh, in, in Denmark, uh. And the man in the, in the, uh, in the office said oh, well we have so and so many, uh, asking to, uh, uh, work in the East Asiatic Company. I said oh. Well, uh, I can’t wait for that. Then I must find another. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Take me, we can, we can put it on top
of these. So, um,
I: Because you were good, well educated.
J: They want, they wanted, uh, they wanted me, uh. And, uh, uh, I remember when I left the office, uh, I was standing in front of, uh, of when I came to the office, I was standing in front of, front of the, uh, the, the plates of the, the very, very clear.
So as a mirror, I dressed me and I used a tie and everything. So, uh, was combining how those young people look today when they look for a job. It was something different that time. But I started, uh, in, uh, in East Asiatic Company into some other ships. They had many ships, uh.
I: When did you join the Asiatic
I: When did you join that
Company? When was it?
J: Uh, well it, it’s, uh, it’s about 150 meter, uh, from
I: When, when did you join the Company? What year?
J: Oh dear. I, I, uh,
I: Nineteen forty
J: Yes, uh, uh,
J: I had to go and look at, look at the watch, uh, I, I, was offered to, and I left to come, uh, when, when
I: That was before Korean War, right?
J: Uh, yes it was. I think it was something
uh, about forty, forty-nine.
I: Nine, yes.
J: Yes, forty-nine I think it must have been. And, um, I took some tours with, with some of the ships and, uh, at one time, uh, I was in India, uh
J: was named to, to, uh, be a hospital ship and go to Korea. I, I sent from India a telegram to, uh,
to our, to the office and said, u h, in case you can use me, I will volunteer for, for a, a job on Jutlandia, uh. Of course as it was at that time, u h, I got, I had no answer, uh. They, they, uh, they, they should tell me what I should do. I shouldn’t ask for something. But, uh, uh, okay.
I, uh, uh, said very short, uh, time after that. And then one day that, I, I, I, when I was back in Copenhagen I got a phone call, uh. You, you can join Jutlandia in two days.
J: And I said oh, well I, I was, I’ll be ready.
I: You were not afraid?
J: And I joined, uh, that was, uh, uh, 19th of September in, uh, uh,
J: Twenty, uh, fifty-two.
I: No, no, no.
J: Yes, ’52.
I: Oh. So you were not in the ship from the beginning.
J: No. I, uh, uh, uh, I, it was ’52, 19th September, uh. Am I right? Yes. Well it must be, yes. And, um, I left two days after with, uh, Jutlandia.
And, uh, it was a, it was a wonderful ship in, in many ways. And, uh, I, of course we should, uh, talk [INAUDIBLE] and, uh, uh, among the, the, there was the ship’s officers and, uh, the hospital staff. And of course, we talked with nurses and doctors and all that sort of things. And, uh, fortunately, uh, uh, I, one day I, I
met, uh, three nurses on, uh, on the deck of Jutlandia. And, uh, uh, we, we, we just talked and, uh, they made fun to say oh well, you can come and visit me, visit me tomorrow, uh, because, uh, I’m ready from 4:00 tomorrow morning, uh. That’s my first day. And oh no, no, they said. They were very afraid to do something, uh.
So, but, uh, when we, we, uh, met each other now, now and then and, uh, um, uh, one, uh, December, uh, one, uh, yes, December we were on our way to, to Japan which we visited after, uh, every three was, was it three, it was three or four, uh, weeks. We should go to , to
Japan with wounded soldiers and, uh, for, uh, to connect, uh, oil and, uh, fresh water, drinking water and so on. And, uh, then the first of January, General McClark, uh,
I: When, what year, 1950?
J: In, in, in, that was in Pusan.
I: Nineteen fifty
J: Uh, that, uh, that was, uh, [NOISE] uh, fifty, that must have been, uh, ’52, uh, no
first of January ’52.
J: Well it’s, uh, no. Not, not, no. I think it, it was, uh, well I, I’m 94 years old, and my brain is
I: wife’s name?
J: Uh, well it was, uh, Tover. It was
J: Not too, too nice of a, for Korean, yes.
I: And what, what did she do in the Jutlandia Hospital ship?
J: Uh, she was a nurse. And, uh, she was a good nurse. And before that, uh, she was actually a military nurse in Copenhagen.
J: And then the, uh, stationed in military hospital. So she was, uh, well, uh, well educated for the job.
I: Um. And what did you do in the ship? What was your job?
J: Uh, I was an engineer.
I: Um hm.
J: I was, in fact, [INAUDIBLE] At that time, it was called, uh, Third Engineer. But, uh, it was, in fact, Second Engineer.
I: So what did you do in, uh, for example? What did you do as an engineer?
J: Uh, well, taking care of, uh, engines and boiler and, uh, uh, of the many various, uh, technical, um, machinery and, uh, all that sort of things.
J: So that was my job. And for instance, in, when we, uh, later when we moved from, uh,
uh, moved, uh, when we moved, uh, when we moved to Inchon, uh, we, we, uh, had only half an hour. We were not allowed to take any parts out of the machinery, uh, because we should be ready to, to, to leave within half an hour.
I: Um hm.
J: in, in case of emergency. And, uh, uh, when we were in, uh, in Japan, we were in,
in the shipyards in, in, uh, Yokahama and, uh, also then I, I was, uh, responsible for, for what repair was made in the, and this kind of thing.
I: Um hm.
J: So, uh, when, uh, uh
I: Can you tell me how many medical doctors and nurses and engineers and steps in the Jutlandia Hospital ship?
J: Uh, well I, I can find it. But uh,
J: Today it will, uh, because it’s all in, in this, uh heavy book, uh. We have all, uh, how many, I think, uh, I, I can’t remember. But I think there were 45, uh, nurses and there were, uh, there were altogether, there were a hospital and staff of about 102, uh, people. And there was a staff, uh,
a ship, uh, ship staff for ships, crew, uh, uh, about the same, about 100. So all the time, all three years we were as a hospital ship, there were about 200, uh, people on board the ship.
I: Um hm.
J: And altogether after the War ended, uh, 630 people at, uh,
had had duties on board the Jutlandia.
J: Uh, alto, altogether.
J: Uh, because, uh, some of the doctors, the, uh, all professors and, uh, chief doctors, they could, maybe could be on board Jutlandia for, uh, six months or, or for the profess, some of the old professors, they were there only three months because they were supposed to come back to Denmark
J: and continue their, their work there. Uh, so it was, uh, some people were, were changed, uh, during that time, and that’s a reason that we, uh, come to, to, uh, 630 people altogether at
I: With patients.
I: So you told me at the museum about Ju Won Kim who was Korean boy, 14 years old
I: who lost his cat.
J: Yes, yes.
I: There are so many kind of stories like that, right?
I : Do you remember any other Korean person [INAUDIBLE] that you took care of?
J: This, this, this, this is actually the, the, the, the real, uh, story, uh, because it was so, uh, uh, so special. But, uh, many of the, especially the, the, uh, young doctors,
went ashore, especially when we were in Inchon, uh. In Pusan, it was no problem because there, that was land and the hospitals were, uh, around. But in Inchon, the, uh, the young, uh, doctors, mostly the young doctors, uh, went ashore and, uh, finally built a, a small in, in the, in the, just in, in one room, uh, half the size of, uh, this I, I guess.
Uh, theses doctors worked, uh, kind of a, a medical clinic and, uh, that was where most of the Korean civilians were treated. They were helped with some medicine or with some minor things. And, uh, that was the reason that, uh, uh, Kim Ju Won, he was so happy, uh, that
some people found him and carried him to this place.
I: Um. So overall, how many wounded soldiers been treated in the hospital ship? Do you know?
J: Uh, well, uh, I, I just saw the, the, uh, the amount in, in the, uh, hospital, and it’s about, uh, 4,800, uh, no, oh yes, 4,000, nearly, nearly 5, nearly 5,000, yes.
I: Was there any hospital, uh, room so that they, uh, uh, treated long after surgery?
J: Uh, uh, they were, they were sent out as soon as possible. But it was, uh, it was very severe wounds they, they had, uh, they were uh, mines or bombs or whatever it is. They were terrible,
uh, wounded many of them because the, those who had, uh, one may see easier wounds, uh, were treated land on, on MASH for instance and in, in, uh, in Korean hospitals. Uh, there were not many Korean hospitals at that time, uh. But, uh, it was only the, the, uh, the Korean dangerous
wounds that came to the three hospital ships because they, of course, came out also to, uh, to the American, uh. But we had examples, uh, that, uh, some, some, uh, not, not to say anything about, uh, the, uh, the, uh, uh, American, uh, hospital ships. But, uh, when the helicopter, uh, came from the front line,
we would, we were laying three ships very close to each other or rather close to each other, uh. When they, uh, when they reported, it was a very dan, dangerous, uh, wounded soldier, they said bring him to, to Jutlandia instead of it because then, uh, otherwise we get too many dead people here. So, so, uh, there were some, some kind of competition.
But I must say, uh, they had a, a, if, if one can say that in the, in that connection, uh, they had only, uh, it was many. But, uh, only 19, uh, 29, uh soldiers, patients which died.
I: Only 29 out of that hospital ship?
J: Uh, twenty, twenty-nine, twenty-nine soldi, uh, wounded patients
were, died on board the Jutlandia.
I: So are there all other 4,000 something, they were treated and they
J: Out of that, only 29.
I: That’s amazing record.
J: Yes. It was amazing. But that was primarily, uh, because of the, uh, helicopters because we, we had, uh, uh, told them, uh,
I was told that, uh, the fastest, uh, wounded soldier, uh, came to, to Jutlandia 20 minutes after he was wounded.
J: So, uh, that, of course that means very much, uh, if they are heavily wounded, uh, that they can, uh, come to a, to a hospital that fast.
I: So the hospital operation room has a,
how was the facility there, and how was the doctors and nurses skill? How was it?
J: Uh, one, first of all I must say the, the, uh, well let’s start with the nurses. Uh, they, uh, they should be, uh, before they were, uh, uh, uh, they were taken in on the hospital ship, uh, they should at least be 25 years old.
I: Uh huh.
J: They should have a hospital experience. They should have been in, in, uh, operation, uh, rooms and uh they, they were very strict, uh, uh, orders about their, their qualities. And, uh, the doctors were, all the doctors, nurses, doctors and professors, and every one was, every one on board was, uh, volunteered for, for the job.
And, uh, it was among the, the, uh, professors that were well renowned professors which, uh, went to, to Korea and, uh, if they had worked on board, uh, the ship for a few months or so, they went to the Korean hospital, uh, as teacher and, uh, uh,
educated, uh, some of the Korean doctors. They used ideas within, uh, operating and, uh,
I: So what was the most difficult thing that you felt while you were staying inside of the Jutlandia hospital ship?
J: Well, uh, to me,
well I, I, I actually don’t know. I, I, I think, uh, I can’t remember any, uh, any, any special things which was, uh, difficult.
I: Okay. And how was the living condition inside of the hospital ship? Where you sleep, what did you eat, how often were you able to take shower, things like that.
J: Uh, well it, we, uh,
I, I, uh, often said some of those who were there were, were angry that I told that. But, uh, uh, I would say we, we were in a luxury ship, uh, and it was, uh, it was in, uh, in luxury number one because we had, uh, one, uh, as you saw, the nurses had, was, had four, uh, had four beds in a very,
uh, small, very small room. But they, they could take a shower, uh.
I: Every day?
J: Uh, every day, uh, well, all depended because we were very short of fresh water.
I: Uh huh.
J: So, uh, they, they were, told everyone on board the ship was told they should save as much as possible, uh, for the fresh water. But, uh, they could take in, uh, if, if, if they felt it was necessary,
they could take a shower. We, we had excellent, uh, food. We had, uh, excellent cooks and, uh, waiters on board and, uh, uh, we had, uh, we, we, we was far from, from all the terrible, uh, uh, war episodes.
I: I see.
J: So, uh, but we, we saw the result of this terrible war.
J: And, uh, it was even those, uh, older, uh, hot, uh, nurses, uh, they, sometimes they cried because it wasn’t, so did many of us, uh. When we were sitting, uh, went down to the wards and, uh, talking, if we had plenty of time, uh, we, we
went down and, uh, uh, sat along the, the, the beds where the wounded soldiers and, uh, uh, it was, it was, uh, sometimes terrible. And, but most, most of all what, uh, really made us, uh, I cried several times on board. But, uh, most
I: Why, why? Why did you cry?
J: When, when they come carried, uh, when one of t he doctors
had, uh, found, uh, a Korean child in, uh, in, in the, in the ruins and, uh, uh, it, it was terrible cold in, in periods. And when they come, come, carried with child, uh, they were. So they were so, so, uh, uh, uh,
in a terrible condition. And, uh, I remember my, my wife told me that, uh, when they were washed, that was the most terrible thing they could do to these children. They had, uh, no parents and no nothing. They hadn’t seen, uh, water, I would say, for, for a long, long time. But they started being very, washed very, uh,
uh, very much, and that was terrible for these poor, poor, small things. Then, then, uh, they, they were put in, uh, from the beginning, in a large, uh, very large, uh, bed, uh, used, used for the soldiers. But, uh, and they, they could have a two, two or three children in, in, uh, in such a bed. But, uh, they continued to, to call Mamasan, mamasan
They wanted more food. And, uh, finally they said that’s strange they can’t eat all these things. And then they found out that they, they put the, the, the food under, under the pillows and, uh,
I: They hide it.
J: They hide it because they, they, they couldn’t know when they ever, uh, got some food afterwards. So, uh, uh,
when they found out that you can have all these things you, you can eat. Oh, in, in, uh, if they were not, uh, very ill, uh, in, in a few weeks, uh, they were, uh, they were so happy again as children ought to be and, u h, they, they loved their nurses and, uh, the nurses loved, uh, these children.
But, uh, and my wife told me, uh, once and I’ve talked to many others, she, she saw one of the, the very small children was sitting, uh, in his bed and he was all the time doing something with his foot.
I: Uh huh.
J: And, uh, she went and said what, what, what’s your, and she broke off one toes, five toes.
He was frozen simply.
J: So she, she breaked, uh, all the, the, the, what’s his
J: What was [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: Toes.
J: Yeah, yes, uh. They, they sat breaking off their own toes. It was terrible. It was, uh,
I: Because it’s frozen. So that it just broken like that. But they didn’t feel the pain.
J: Yes, yes. That was terrible. That was, uh, I can just now when I’m, I’m talking about it and telling about it, I, I, but that’s because I, I would become older. But it’s, uh, it really touched me still these days. So, u h, but also, but then, uh, for instance, uh, when, when some of the soldiers, they were, uh,
just about to being, uh, alright, uhm, they went on deck and, uh, I saw, one time I saw a soldier with binding here and there and, uh, uh, but he was, uh, [INAUDIBLE] I don’t know what [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: Skipping the rope.
J: But, was skipping with the rope and I said what the hell? You’re now, you’re, you’re just being repaired, and now you’re stand, and
that’s my life, uh. I, I must necessarily do it not because I think it’s fun but, uh, uh, I’ll, I’m not more wounded than I’ll be sent back to the front when, uh, I’m release from Jutlandia.
I: Uh huh.
J: Oh dead, I said. Well, uh, so that I’ll probably be at the front, uh, again in one week or so and, uh
I must, I must be strong. I must be able to, to move, to, if I want to suppose survive. So, uh,
I: Wow. That’s amazing.
J: So it was tough. They, they were, they were Korean, yeah, they were amazing. The, uh, that was all the soldiers and, uh, we had also a few, uh, a few Korean soldiers. They were, they were all, uh, very, I was impressed by, by them.
But, uh, uh, the, the Koreans, they fought for, for their own land. The Americans, they, they said why am I in Korea? I didn’t know where Korea was at all, uh. But, but now I, I’m here. But, uh, we have a job and we’ll do the job. And uh, they, they were, I was, I was very impressed of
especially the, uh, the, uh, American soldiers because there were, they had a wife or, or children or whatever at home in the United States and, uh, for some of them it was very hard on the point of, uh, what was, uh, uh, was wounded and, uh, how bad they, they themselves were. They, they had lost legs or arms or
other important things for a man, uh. But, but still they, uh, they were soldiers right to the, to the, uh, to the end.
I: What were you thinking? What were you thinking when you saw those things, severely wounded soldiers, civilian wounded, Korean children. What were you thinking?
J: While you, uh,
you could only think one thing. That was a damn war, uh, because war, war is, uh, is a terrible thing and it’s, uh, it’s a stupid thing. But, uh, while we never ended, we have had it for many thousand years, uh, people have, uh, been, uh, fought against each other and, uh,
J: uh. But, uh, what, what, what can you do? As long,
as long as we had, as we had people like, uh, North Korean President and Mr. Putin in, uh, in Russia and, uh, many of all Africa is full of, of mad dictators, uh, you, you’ll never be able to get rid of war.
I I have this question. Had, had you get out of the ship and get into any city in Korea while you were there?
I: Were you, did you have a chance to go to Seoul?
J: Yes, oh yes.
Uh, we, we could, uh, we could go to Inchon. We always, uh, we, uh, uh, of course we had to, to, to say that we, we would leave and, uh, all depending on, uh, uh, if there were no urgent things to, to be done.
I: Um hm.
J: Uh. But, uh, if it was we could, we, we, we took, uh, the ships, uh, one of the motor boats and, uh, uh,
we could walk around and, uh, uh, people were kind and, uh, uh, nice. But, uh, some of them were really in a bad shape.
I: So tell me about the city you saw, Inchon and Seoul, and how much was it destroyed? Tell me details.
J: Uh, uh, uh, so. I, I have to get oh, oh, oh, this one. Uh, uh, now and then if there a chance, we, we could, uh,
go ashore in, uh, uh, first was when, uh, those who, who was with the ship in, in Pusan
I: Um hm.
J: Uh, they could easily go ashore whenever there was a chance. But we had to sail, uh, in and out every shore, not only take very much care that we could reach the boat when it returns to, to the ship. But, uh, sometimes, uh,
we had business ashore that was normally the, the, uh, American black market. We could buy a, a coat or some, so man of us, if you could buy a, a jeep if you want to, uh.
J: One of the
I: What is that, what is that picture? Please, show that to me.
J: Yes. But uh, yeah, never to, uh, Inchon or Pusan we could come. But, uh, Seoul, uh,
Seoul, uh, we, we, uh, I visited Seoul only once, uh, when I was in Korea at that time. And that was because I, I was, uh, had become a good friend of the Port Captain, the American Port Captain. And then one, one day he came and said uh, uh, I must send a, a car to Seoul tomorrow, uh. Would you like to, to, to go with it
up to Seoul? Oh yes, of course. To know someone who you would, would likes to bring, easily two, two men, and we have, uh, armored soldiers on board the Jeep, oh yes, I would. And I, of course I asked this, uh, this nurse, uh, and said would, would you, would you like to, to go trip to, to Seoul, oh yes she would of course.
And we had, uh, an American soldier, armed soldier, uh, uh, and, uh, uh, he took this picture, uh, uh, on the road to, to Seoul, uh. But I, I understand there was, uh, times now I’ve been in, uh, in, uh, in Korea, uh. I have sometimes, uh, uh, gone with, with a car
to, uh, to Inchon, uh, for instance for, for my, my good Korean friend, Kim Ju Won. He lives in, uh, and has a, a splendid uh, uh, uh, place where, where he lives in, in Inchon. But I understand that today it still takes, uh, as many hours to, to come from Seoul to Inchon
J: as it, as it was during the War.
I: I have this question. Could you describe, you can now put it down
I: the picture, and the Seoul you saw on that trip with, in the Jeep, and the Seoul you saw, have you been back to Korea?
J: Uh, well I, I didn’t quite understand your, your question.
I: Have you been back to Korea recently?
J: Uh, well the last time was in, uh, 19, uh, 2000, uh. Since I, I’ve not been in Korea.
I: So you know the Korea in 1952, 53?
J: I really do.
I: And you saw Korea in 2000.
I: How can you compare that?
J: It’s not possible to compare that at all because, uh, uh, when, when I was, uh, when I was in, in Seoul, uh, with, uh, with the American soldier and the Jeep, uh,
there were only one, one half bridge, uh, over the river, uh. In fact, uh, I think it was able to, to drive over one bridge if they did it very carefully and only one a t a time, uh. I don’t know how many you have now. I, I think you have a, a, eight, nine, ten bridges over
I: More than, much more than that.
J: Much more, yes. And you have, you have a
two tons and, uh, everything. It’s, uh, uh, the first time, uh, many of, of us, uh, veterans, uh, came to, to Seoul, uh, I was more or less, uh, uh, I, I happen to, to, to have another living arrangement, and there were, we were 40, uh, people invited to Korea on this, uh, Korean visit.
Visit Korea, uh. And, uh, when we landed, we flew with a, with, uh, Korean Air which had just started, and we landed in, uh, in, uh, in Kimpo Airport, the old Kimpo Airport, and it was still repaired. But, uh, not to talk about the, the new airport, uh,
J: Uh, Uh, I don’t know what it’s called.
But it’s in Inchon.
J: Yeah. But, uh, to, to, when we landed, uh, with the, with the air, with the airplane, uh, and saw, uh, passed over, over Seoul and landed, we thought that, that’s impossible. We, uh, I remember many of the, the peoples who, uh, understood, uh, those things.
They said oh, it’s terrible. It will take Korea 100 years to, to build up, uh, just a, a modest, uh, city. Now it’s uh, but every time I’m there, uh, it’s, uh, I’m so impressed, uh, to see the, but your, your, uh, your people, the Korean people, they really work hard. And, uh, uh,
just imagine what they have built now for, uh, uh, if, uh, if I may jump a little bit in, in the, in, uh, when we, uh, when the, it finally was decided that we should have some kind of, of a memorial, uh, we didn’t have much, uh, money in, in, in the, in our, Jutlandia Veterans Group at that time, uh.
So, uh, it, it, it was a modest, uh, uh, uh, I, I suggested couldn’t we find, couldn’t we receive a piece of granite or some, uh, from, from one, one Korean mountain. There ae so many mountains there. Couldn’t we say we have a memorial, and this is from, uh, from Korea? And that was, uh, uh, immediately we, uh, uh,
accepted from uh, uh, the Korean Association and, uh, some months later, uh, we should have this, uh, huge granite, uh, block, uh, transported to Denmark. So I know, I know, I’ll arrange it , uh, the report because at that time, we had just received, uh, the, one of the world’s, uh, first container ships,
and the biggest one at that time, uh, and, uh, uh, and what was the name of this container ship? It was Jutlandia. I said of course this block of granite from Korea to Denmark should, should be the ship, with the ship called Jutlandia.
J: And it kept and, and, uh, uh, I, I received a, received it in the Port of Copenhagen
when it was unloaded, uh. And, uh, I can already now, uh, I was, uh, so, uh, it, it was, uh, uh, so wonderful, uh, to, to receive this stone, uh. The, uh, I don’t know, you have not seen now a memorial.
It’s very modest. It’s, uh, it’s about the size of, maybe smaller than, than this place
I: Uh huh.
J: Uh, uh, and, uh, uh, it, it ‘s a, but that was what we, what we could, uh, afford. But the stone and everything was, uh, was paid by, uh, uh, by the Korean, uh, Association, uh
contrary to, to Denmark when we had this, uh, stone, uh, cut out, uh, the, the, uh, what, what was to, to be written on it, uh. We, we were taxed, uh, for, I can’t remember, uh, how many thousands kroner it was. I was angry. I said it’s arranged through the, through the Korean Embassy,
and it’s, it’s, uh, given to us, uh, from Korean Veterans, and you tax it so that we can’t, uh. I was, I was really, uh, really angry. But, uh, we couldn’t do anything about it.
I: So now Korea is 11th largest economy in the world.
I: And one of the most substantive democracy in East Asia.
I: Can you believe that?
J: Uh, no. It’s unbelievable. But, but that’s how it is.
It’s, uh, but it’s still, it, it, it is the, the, the work craft of, uh, of the Korean people is, uh, very impressive. And, uh
I: When you left Korea, when did you leave Korea?
J: Uh, went for, for the last time
I: Yeah. And, uh, from the hospital ship, when did you leave?
J: Uh, when I, uh, that was, uh, when, when we, when we, uh, sent back to Copenhagen.
I: Nineteen fifty-three.
J: That, that was, that was when
the, the, uh, uh, what was, uh, the, the, uh, when, when, when the, the, uh, start of the peace between North and when, when that was finally signed, uh, I have to say Jutlandia was picked, uh, at one time, uh, to be the place where this signing should have taken place
I: Ah ha
J: That was, it should have been on board Jutlandia.
But North Korea said it, it’s, no. It’s not a new, uh, ship. It’s a, it’s a [INAUDIBLE] Uh, United States even and everything.
I: So when you left Korea,
I: did you think that Korea would become like this today?
J: No, never, no. We, we, we were all sure that, uh, uh, it would, uh, it would be a, a, a, terrible work
to just to build up and just to, to house, uh. But the, the, uh, the amount of, uh, citizens in Korea rose like that and, uh, uh, not to talk about the, the, uh, amount of, of uh, cars,
I: Um hm. So, but this is a kind of miracle, isn’t it?
J: Um, yeah.
I: Miracle, right?
J: Yes, yes.
I: Do you agree?
I: And, but the thing is
many countries do not talk about this Korean War at all in their History textbook, and I’m, I think it is also the case for the Denmark. Why is that? And how can we change that?
J: Uh, well I, I, I think you have already changed very much, uh, because, uh, uh, just see the, the many agreements already, uh, made
between, uh, uh, Denmark and Korea, uh. I think we have a, a very, uh, very good cooperation with Korea now.
I: We want to have this story in History textbooks so that teachers can teach about it.
I: How can we do that?
J: I don’t know. I don’t know. I, I’ve, oh since you’ve told us, uh, uh, and asked us, uh,
down at San Peda, uh, I, I can’t, I can’t give you a, a, a, a, I think we, we, we don’t, uh, we, we, not, uh, uh, uh, teach people about the Second World War
J: [INAUDIBLE] Uh, I don’t know. I, I think it’s, it might be that, uh, uh, they’re not so interested
in teaching in, uh, in war.
I: Got it. So by 2020, it’s going to be the 70th anniversary of the Korean War.
I: It’s, it’s a special project.
J: Yes it is.
I: by the Ministry of Patriots and Veterans Affairs and my foundation
I: Do you have any special message to the Korean people in Korea?
J: I think I, I can’t teach the Koreans anything
I, I’m sure, uh. No, I wouldn’t know what, what, uh, what to answer you, uh, unfortunately.
I: What is Korea to you personally now? You didn’t know where Korea was, right?
J: That’s correct, yes.
I: And you were in the hospital ship witnessing all this beautiful stories
I: Wounded soldiers being treated and saved and as many as Korean children
and Korean people. So now, you know Korea.
I: What is Korea to you personally?
I: What is Korea to you personally?
J: Uh, well I, I, I can tell you one of the times I was in Korea I, I have it in, in some of my drawers in my office, uh, when I was there. But, uh, when I, when I, uh, one of the times I, I was,
uh, in Korea, I think it was when you celebrated the, the first, uh, um, uh, first time that, uh, Seoul [INAUDIBLE]
MALE VOICE: Liberated.
J: Liberated, yes. Oh, I know it. When, when, uh, first time, uh, Seoul was liberated, uh, during the Korean War, uh, the anniversary
I: Uh huh.
J: you, you had, uh, large, uh, ceremonies in, uh, in Seoul. And, um, uh, I was there with one of, one of our, uh, colleagues and, uh, uh, we, we were showed, we should sit in, in this deep and there was a promenade fantastic, uh, with cars and everything and, uh, we drove, uh, around
to the, the biggest, uh, uh, roads in, in, uh, Seoul, and along, along the sides there were, there were some, I think, uh, I don’t know, 500,000 people and, uh, uh, uh, uh, young ladies came with
their children and went out in the road and, uh, uh, uh, lifted their children so that we could, uh, uh, touch them, uh. It was, it was, uh, amazing, very, it was, uh, it was fantastic.
All these young people, uh, uh, school, school boys and, uh, everything when, when we, when we, uh, walk, uh, ordinary way in, in the, in the city. If, uh, if we meet people who, who can see, uh, from something that we were, uh, from, from Denmark and we were, uh
maybe they, they, they definitely knew everything about Jutlandia. And they came and, uh, old men, uh, came and, uh, uh, hugged us, uh, with tears running and, uh, uh, I, I, uh, uh, I think I’ve not been in, uh, Korea one time, uh, when I’m not, uh, uh, uh, cried, the feelings
has, uh, uh, taken over, uh, because, uh, we have so, uh, so, so many. I, I would like to, uh, are we very busy or, or
and, uh, we talked about it and taught them that, uh, it was definitely not because their, their parents didn’t like them. It was because they want the very best for them.
And we finally, uh, came to, to Seoul again and, uh, uh, we had to stay, uh, uh, four more days, uh, in, uh, Korea contrary to the rest of the, the first people, uh. They were flying home to Denmark. But then when my wife and I, uh, we, we left the bus the, the head of the, this expedition said oh, one moment. The, the, uh,
the driver of the bus, the, the chauffer uh, has something for you for us, and then he came with, with a big box, and inside were this beautiful, it’s, uh, heavy. It, uh, it’s a wonderful. But it, uh, he was a poor, uh, chauffer with, with, which definitely not earn much money. And uh, uh, he, he didn’t understand what, what we, uh,
said even in, in, English, uh, barely, barely understood it.
I: Um hm.
J: But, uh, he was told that, uh, we had, both my wife and I, had been on the, on the Jutlandia, uh, and, uh, that was the reason he had bought this one and gave it to us.
J: I think it’s fantastic.
J: That’s the, that’s the reason it stands there.
I: Um hm.
J: But, uh,
museum and asked where is the, the book?
I: Um hm.
J: uh, because, uh, I’ve seen it, the, the first, uh, three or four times, uh, I was in war museum. But in this, you, you’ll have, uh, it’s full of pictures.
J: Uh, uh, and, uh, and, uh, it is full of, uh, it’s full of, uh, all in English because, uh, all the, uh,
you can read this one.
J: You can keep it if you want to.
I: Yep. So, uh, Mr. Jagd, would you, I wanna wrap this up interview because we have limited time, and you shared a lot of stories. So let’s wrap it, wrap this up. Because you really go, went there in Korea and worked in the Jutlandia Hospital ship, so that many, many soldiers
been saved. And many Korean people saved, too. And that’s why I think we were able to build our nation again, very strong economy and democracy. So I wanna thank you for your service as a part of the whole Jutlandia, Jutlandia Hospital ship. So I wanna thank you on behalf of Korean nation. Do you have any message to the Korean people about your service?
Any special message?
J: Uh, well, uh, uh, Korea, uh, always say we shall never forgot, forget. And, uh, I can tell you you have never forgotten anything when, whenever there is a chance, uh, Koreans, uh, so, uh, uh, so, uh, ready to help
or, or, or to, uh, just to be kind towards us. And, uh, uh, I, I, I think, uh, Korea thanks Denmark for, for what, what we did and, uh, we are, of course, happy that it was, uh, actually became a success contrary what many people in Denmark said, all the journalists. But, uh, uh,
So we have so many things to thank, uh, Korea for, at least, uh, I must say all the visitors who have had a, uh, chance to go there. Now Mr. [INAUDIBLE] Christianson, uh, who has just been there, they were very excited when they came home. I never had the, the time to, to talk with him. But, uh, he told me and his daughter, uh, told me that it,
it was really a wonderful experience, uh,
J: out there.
J: But uh, uh, I must, uh, thank also Korea for what you have done and, uh, just imagine how much, uh, patients there have been between, uh, uh, Denmark and Korea, uh. Korea built, I think first 20 of the largest container ships to
[mask] uh, the shipping firm.
I: Um hm.
J: Uh, mask the huge, uh, world’s biggest container ship, uh, built in Korea. Who would have, uh, told me that, uh, when, when I started in Korea
J: Impossible. But they, they really, uh, they really, uh, they have really worked, uh, and, uh, we are very impressed about what you have done.
I: Thank you. Thank you.
J: So we thank you, too.
I: Thank you.
[End of Recorded Material]