Harvey Tarshis

0:00

Ryan: I’d like to start our interview with a few questions about you. So where and when were you born?

Harvey: I was born in the Bronx, New York, on June 20th, 1930.

 

R: Okay. So talk to me about your family. So what were your parents’ occupations, and do you have any siblings?

H: My mother was a housewife, my father was a salesman. I had a brother who passed away and we grew up in New York…

 

0:30

H: …in a suburb called Rockaway’s. It’s a beach resort – very similar to Miami or Fort Lauderdale, the beaches, only it didn’t have that kind of population. They were small little towns, and mostly in the summertime they had bungalows, rooming houses; and in the wintertime there were just a few people, maybe a few hundred or maybe a thousand people in each area that were there. That’s where I grew up, from about 1939 to 1961 when I married a lovely lady.

 

1:00

R: So what were you doing before you entered the service?

H: Could you say that again?

R: Yeah, what were you doing before you entered the service?

H: I was in sales. When I graduated high school, economics dictated that it was tough to go to college, so I became a salesman. My father was a salesman, and I was a salesman in New York for about six months selling embroidery.

 

1:30

H: And I wasn’t making much money. In 1952, maybe 50, 60 dollars a week which wasn’t bad but it wasn’t something we needed in the home. So someone I knew got a hold of me one day, and he says “Harvey, what are you doing?” and I told him, and he says “Are you interested in making money?” Well, at that time our family needed money, so I said yes and I said to him, “Well what do you do?”, and he said “Well, I sell electrolux”.

 

2:00

H: And I don’t know what electrolux meant, I didn’t know what it was, so I said “Mel, what is it?” and he says “It’s a vacuum cleaner”. “A vacuum cleaner?” I said, “You sell vacuum cleaners?” and he says “Harvey, do you want to make a lot of money?”; I said yes. He said “Come with me next Saturday, you pick me up.” I didn’t have a car, and we went to a meeting and there was a bunch of men and they were all excited to go out and make money. And he took me out and they had a machine, a vacuum machine.

 

2:30

H: And we started knocking on doors, and he just said “Stay here and don’t worry about anything”. Finally he – and I must say of these memories of him, this was one of the greatest salesman I ever knew – finally he’d get inside, and then he’d take the machine, and he’d do a demonstration, and after a while the lady said “Okay”. All he’d do was take an application: “Hold onto this” – I’ll never forget this – “hold onto this, you’re gonna need it, you might want it”.

 

3:00

H:… and during the demonstration, she says “Why don’t you make yourself happy, Mrs. Jones? Why don’t you ‘okay’ this?” and she’s standing there “Well, my husband…” I’ll never forge- y’know, we were trained. They gave us a script of things er, stuff that people would say to overcome that, objections. Y’know, this is 1952, I haven’t told this story since that time.

 

3:30

H: And he comes back. He says “Madam, I appreciate that, but who does the cleaning in your house?” she says “Well, I do.” “Well, I’m sure Mr. Jones, when he comes home ‘sees this great cleaning, he’d be happy you’d have something to do!” That was the spiel, if you want to call it that. That was the way you got them to sign. “Make yourself happy again. Why don’t you sign this?” After 37 times, she signed it.

 

4:00

H: We get out, and I remember this distinctly- like it was yesterday- he says “Harvey, do you know how much we made on that?” I said no. A machine at that time was about $70, this is ‘52, no ‘51, and he said we made a certain amount of dollars, like $30 or $40, just for that amount. That was half my pay for a week! So, he says “Let’s go!”

 

4:30

H: … and he kept knocking on doors, got into another one. Same thing, same thing, closed. Learned certain things in sales, that carry me to this day, because I’ve been a salesman, is to qualify a customer and to find out- and there’s three main things that I’ve learned in life in the sales the program. Show the need, create the desire, and close. And if you remember that- in any kind of sales. Those three things…

 

5:00

H:… will be the root of what you’re going to accomplish. Show the need, create the desire, and then you can close on that sale. And that’s my selling tip for the day!

 

R: Now we would like to know a little more about your military service. So did you enlist, or were you drafted? And if you enlisted, why did you choose that specific branch of the military?

 

H: I didn’t enlist; I was drafted in October, 1951…

 

5:30

H: …with about 6 or 7 fellas from my area. We all went to school together and we went to New York, we went over to New Jersey, and then for about 2 or 3 weeks, they were shipped to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. That’s in Lawton, Oklahoma where I was the uh- that was the field artillery replacement center, the largest one in the country. We studied there, we had basic training there.

 

6:00

H: It was about 6-8 weeks worth worth of physical training. The other 6 weeks we learned, I learned surveying and so what surveying does and training to be a surveyor. We had about 2 weeks off and then went home then we went on a plane to california, camp stone i think. Then we stayed there in a

 

6:30

Repo-depo and we sailed 17 days on the pacific and saw mt.hiroshima, processed there and about a week later shipped off to the hills of korea. I can’t give you an address because there wasn’t an address.

 

R: Can you tell us a bit about your wife or did you stay in contact with her when you were in korea?

 

H: I didn’t have a wife I had a girlfriend.

 

7:00

H: I wrote to her 4-5 times a week and the only way you can contact there was by mail so you had mail call.And that was a traditional thing once a day they’d come over from service battery in a big truck and give out the mail. There was no such thing as a phone to talk back home.

 

7:30

R: Did you feel like the training you received prepared you for your duties in the military?

 

H: Say again?

 

R: Did you feel that the training you received prepared you for your like daily duties in the military?

 

H: Uh, yes well they trained us on surveying and when i got in this artillery outfit, it was this 8in howitzer largest gun at the time in korea and we were pretty close in fact our outfits were the closest ones

 

8:00

H: to the front lines which were in fact only about one mile and a half that might seem a lot but it was not when you heard the enemies and at that time North Korea would blow bugles and you used to hear that. And we fired upon the enemy and i was with the 17th field artillery battalion, battery B. We had 4 guns, four 8in howitzers, 3 were positioned in the ground

 

8:30

H: one was a mobile, like a tank, and that went into area on missions and we had what were called fire missions and we would fire upon the enemy. And that was one of the duties that I had there was 9 to 11 men needed to create a fire mission the different jobs they would do to pick up the ammunition, do some coordinates with the microscope, one of my jobs was to elevate the tube and you get instructions from a fellow who’s getting instructions from the fire direction command, and the fire mission would continue.

 

9:00

H:  And we’d shoot this 200 pound shell, clean it, clean the breech, and then we’d wait for the next command, fire again, maybe change the direction when the forward observer sees that maybe it was a 100 yards (inaudible) left or right. He would get that command back, fire direction command would make the adjustment, phone it in.

 

9:30

H: One of the things I did was on the phone for a while- we’d all switch positions- and I’d repeat it to the gunner and the quadrant man. He would do the instruments, line it up on aiming circles, elevate it to the right thing, they would get a group of people putting in the shell, a group of people putting in the powder, locking the breech, putting in the…

 

10:00

H: You know, this is 1952, I haven’t told this story. Maybe once or twice before, but it’s coming back. It was a coordinated effort of about 9 or 10 people to get this 200 pound projectile going. Then you stood by waiting for the command to fire and what happened is there was a firing mechanism that had a blank cartridge. Put it in there, went into the breech, that had a center hole in it. When it fired, it fired the explosive, touched the back of the pad, and the shell would go off.

 

10:30

H: And it went off! (Laughs)

 

R: How did you adapt to military life? Like the physical regiment, barracks, and the food and social life.

 

H: Well, first of all there was no social life. I had a girlfriend back home, but didn’t have time I was in as I said the 4th cell. We had some time off. Maybe we would play pool or do something.

 

11:00

H: We went to Oklahoma City over the weekend if we had the pass and we would just look around as tourists at 21, 22. There wasn’t a lot but we managed, we enjoyed it. We adapted to the life of a soldier going through training.

 

R: Are you still in contact with any of your friends from the military?

 

11:30

H: Three, three they came from…Well, when I got out of service, I was in contact with one fellow in Ohio who after a few years we used to call on the phone because we were very close in training. He was Luke Tomarrew, can’t forget it! And he passed away so the only ones I have are the friends that went with me into basic training.

 

12:00

Blaise Hernandez

 

H: And two or three of those passed on so there is really one one that I know that lives close by and when he comes down from New York he has a vacation spot very close to where I am. We get together and we spend a couple of weeks together and we are on the phone once a week and those are my contacts.

 

I: Do you have any more memories in Korea?

 

H: A lot. Well… Let me draw a picture I think this is interesting. You’re 22 years of age and your in a war zone. Your shelling an enemy and your getting shelled. At that time at 21 and 22 there were things that you would do then that you would never do before. One of those was in front of this big hill that we fired over was a British outfit. I wasn’t a big drinker at that time and… but I drank a beer once in a blue moon. When we fight, we fight over a field about 80 or 90 yards. And there was the mountain going over. And that field we didn’t know what was there, it could have been dark. There were mines or it could have been something. And one day he says, “hey Ronnie” come on we are going over to see the brutes to get the beer so we can get the beer back. Ok, you know. So how do we get there. We go into the field and we crawled and crawled and crawled wires over and head. Finally we hit the mountain and we got a couple of cases of beer and hiked them down this mountain across a possible minefield. Now if anybody told me if I did that I would say no because at 21 and 22 in the service you wouldn’t do things that you would normally do.

 

I: (Not clear question)

 

15:00

 

I: (Inaudible)

 

I: That’s really funny though.

 

H: There’s other stories but that one comes to mind because I’m looking at you young fellas and I’m just trying to put myself into that mode but those are the things that I did.  When i tell that story about crawling over possible minefields, going up for beer which I really didn’t care for…

 

15:30

H:  then coming back.  It was just humorous.

 

I:  What did some of your friends think when you had come back with the case of beer?

H:  He was saying, “Hey, he’s a hero, he’s a hero for the night!”

 

16:00

H: There were three or four of us, we brought these cases of beer back and everyone went for beer.  I think I had one and that’s it.  I wasn’t a beer drinker.

 

I: Were people regularly trying to be a hero for the day or is that just one…?

 

H: No, that wasn’t a heroic thing.  Heroic things were a few other things that came about

 

16:30

H: but that wasn’t a heroic thing that we did. It was awful, in fact, I got reprimanded for doing that. The captain found out and one stripe came off and from the sergeant I became the corporal and that was that.  It was brief.

 

17:00

I: Do you know where Korea was or anything about Korea before the war began?

 

H: We had an indoctrination period. We knew it was right near Japan because we sailed from Japan to Korea which wasn’t far.  Let’s see 1951 the United States entered the Korean… You know it’s not a war, it was a conflict.  It was a police action, Congress didn’t act on this.  It was a police action, it wasn’t a war.

 

17:30

H: Can you just repeat that once more, I’d appreciate it?

 

I: Well, I think you already answered the question. What were the weather conditions like?

 

H: In Korea?

 

I: Yeah.

 

H:  Well, most people thought of Korea as bitter cold. And it was bitter cold.  We had special army boots that were called Mickey Mouse Boots and they were thermal boots and so…

18:00
H: We had special army boots we called Mickey Mouse Boots, they were thermo boots so when you stood a long time with them and your feet perspired… these had a ventilator so when you walked it would take out the air, air would be ventilating out of your toes and your heels. We called them Mickey Mouse boots. The conditions, most people saw Korean Veterans firing etc on them in the news bundled up- it was cold

18:30
what they didn’t know was that the heat was unbearable in the summertime, they didn’t show that but instead of a tent, for a long time we dug into the mountain and we sandbagged the sides of the mountain and we went in and slept there, of course it was cool inside. So the conditions there were such. It was very very hot in the summer especially if you’re on a fire mission and

19:00
now you’re firing away- taking a shell sitting there in the Sun doing all that operation. But when it was cold, it was cold. I mean you had warmth, enough clothes, enough things. Tent was handy, we had about 12 people in the tent. You had a stove there and every couple hours someone else would go on duty and make sure that any fire didn’t come along,

19:30
they patrol -they’d stand duty for about two hours. So we had shifts doing that… go ahead… the cold was noticeable, but the heat was also bad.

I: So then, besides the mountains ,where else did you stay? Or sleep overnight?

H: We had tents, we had tents in the hills that were up on the side of the hill. Tent here, tent there

20:00
varies in 8 or 9 in a tent. There were quite a few of tents because there were 3 battery, 3 guns. Each one had a tent there then you had the service battery, then you had the headquarters battery where the captain was with his staff so he had several tents in the compound.

I: You have any interaction with civilians while…

H: No no no, we had… with the civilians? You talking about with the Koreans?

I: Yes

20:30
H: We had a great boy who took care of clothes. He did the washing, he did things like that prepare.. to do that. We almost had a maid. Ok, but we didn’t have any interaction with civilians at all, we were in a fighting zone. They wouldn’t even let civilians there, it was in the mountains. I couldn’t even tell you the city because I don’t think there was even a city there. It was just mountains.

 

21:00
I: Did you have any moment where you felt like you were in grave danger.

H: Yea yea, uh several times. Once or twice a month we would get shelled, so that was danger um once in a while I would serve duty in a gun post and we dug in on the top of a mountain and we didn’t know what was happening,

21:30
the enemy was only a mile and a half away so we didn’t know if any of them filtered in so that was the reason for the guard posts so we never had an incident where anybody came in that way that was done. So we didn’t have an incident, thank god, that was detrimental to our outfit.

I: besides surveying did you have any other duties while serving?

22:00
H: I was on the gun. Surveying was done primarily, when we have to move. In other words we pack up and go to another area and we had to find out the coordinates of that area. So I had a crew of four and what we did is we started at the top of a mountain where you’d find with your telescopes another mountain with an aiming stick and you’d line onto that and now through

22:30
triangulation we would know where we’re going and then when we got there we would now know the coordinates where this battery is now that we moved to then that’s on the map. Now fire direction command knows where they are on the map so they can now fire on the enemy once they know the position that they’re in when the fire direction man told them.

23:00
What I did do, I don’t know if I mentioned this but, so to get an extra point one of the things I did was volunteer. You don’t volunteer in the army but I volunteered, so I volunteered to be with the forward observer so for three days we were on top of a mountain looking over the enemy and we saw the enemy and he would bring fire upon the enemy. A lieutenant whose name escapes me

23:30
but the lieutenant would create a fire mission and I one of the things I did was call back the fire mission and he’d give me the instructions at the coordinates and things like that and would be radioed back to my outfit and they would assign certain guns, different angles to shoot and that’s how that went on.

I: Can you explain the points a little bit further please?

H: The points? Well the point system was…

 

24:00

…Well the point system was, if you are on the front line, and they injured you, you got four points, so it was 39 points to rotate.  I was in the one right behind and it was three, and then there was one way back you got two, and I don’t think there was a one. One was maybe back in Seoul. You know, just being a soldier in a city that had no conflict at all. They supplied us with all the things:

 

24:30

with ammunition, they supplied us with food, they supplied us with the rations, things like that.

 

I:  Is there anything that was important to you that you carried with you during your time?

 

H: When you say carry you mean mentally?

 

I: or any sort of thing in your bag, in your pocket.

 

H: no, I had a locker under my, I had a locker under my cot with my personal belongings

25:00

Shaving creams, this and that, a change of clothes, that’s where the civilian, the young boy came. He would do your laundry: you leave it on your cot, and he would pick it up, and then we would have a fresh set of clothes.

 

I: Where were you when the conflict ended?

 

H When the conflict ended, was in June I believe in 1953, I was on the high seas. I was on a boat…

 

25:30

A ship going back to the United States. My time, my 39 points came, and in fact I had 40 points, I stayed there three weeks longer than I felt I should have, but that was on the high seas

when the declaration was signed.  Which I don’t know the exact date, I should know, but it was in June and I was on a ship heading home to California. Then a couple of days processing there and back home.

 

26:00

 

I: and how was the journey back home?

 

H: Journey back home?  Journey back home was fine; I couldn’t wait to get back, anxiety, girlfriend, my parents, my brother, uh, it was over with, and when you look back,

26:30

When I look back, I am looking back as a matured man who is getting on in age, and when you are 21, 22, getting back is a whole different ball game.  It’s a different feeling, so you can reflect back, and think of it, and then you can also think of what I thought about it then.  I wanted to get home, I wanted to see my girlfriend, I wanted to see my parents, I didn’t know what I was going to do,  am I going to go back to vacuum cleaners?  Am I going to go back to school?  I went back to school.  I studied something for a while, remember this was 1952/53,  the world has changed.

 

27:00

The education system is changed. Everything is changed; we are in a new Technology now which we weren’t at that time.

 

R: You mentioned something in your mind to help you endure while your were in Korea. Could you please tell us about that?

 

H: You hope that when we get shelled, the shell didn’t come to you. That’s number one. We didn’t get shelled that much, we got shelled a few times a month- maybe once, twice a month.

 

27:30

H: But they came in and I had an incident.. well we were on a mission, and shells came in, and one of them exploded fairly close- thank God there was no shrapnel- I was thrown off the tail, and I hurt myself, and they took me back to the compound- the hospital there.

 

28:00

H: They didn’t see anything broken. I remember the fellow said, “pray for a break, because if you get a break, you go home.” But no such luck, but that’s what I can remember there.

 

R: So back to going home. How were you received by your friends and girlfriend?

 

28:30

H: It was very nice… well, funny story. I don’t know how many people know New York, I don’t know how many people… but after we were in Jersey being reprocessed, I got a bus into Times Square, which is a famous place in Manhattan, and my girlfriend was driven there to meet me. So my first emotional thing was when I saw my girlfriend, we met in Times Square, and hugged and kissed and things like that.

 

29:00

H: My friends were in the car and they drove us back, it was about 45 minutes to the Rockaways. I saw my mother- typical home, you know, it wasn’t balloons and everything, you know, crying and normal emotions that go and that was my coming home.

 

29:30

R: How was the process of readjusting to civilian life? What was most difficult for you?

 

H: It wasn’t very difficult… It wasn’t that I carried these memories and they affected me to the point where I couldn’t socialize or I couldn’t do anything. I told you, I had a girlfriend. I had my parents, I had my brother. I wanted to be… television was just in its infancy, and I wanted to be a cameraman, and I went to a school in New York called…

 

30:00

H: …called, it’s amazing, S.R.T., School Radio Television. And I wanted to be [one of] two things, either productions or the camera. And I started to go with the camera, and then suddenly we- they switched around and then you did some producing work. Directing, I fell in love with that. Behind the camera, directing, and I liked that for a while and um…

 

30:30

H: … I was a salesman, and there was a salesman at that time for several months, almost a year, selling embroidery in Manhattan in the garment[?] district. And one of the men in the- one of the men said “Would you like a job?” from the school and I said “Sure!” And it was with a production company at that time, so I was all excited. So I got a job with the production company.

 

31:00

H: I was what they called a “gopher”. Do you know what a gopher is? “Gopher” this and “gopher” that. But I learned, I stayed. I was with a film director and it was what I loved for a while but it was going nowhere. In 1955, television really came to California. California is where television really broke out. And New York lost a lot of people and I didn’t pursue it.

 

31:30

H: I didn’t go to California, I was single and I just went back into sales. And that’s how that came about.

 

R: After the Korean conflict, what’s your opinion on participating in it?

 

H: My opinion on what?

 

R: On participating in the Korean conflict.

 

H: What was my opinion on it?

 

R: Yeah

 

H: My opinion on it… my opinion on it could mean…

 

32:00

H: When you went into the service, you were given history of the United States. This is taking people away from their normal way of life and indoctrinating them into the service, and therefore, you have to get some kind of a feeling that the army wants you to have. A purpose! If you don’t have a purpose, you’re not gonna be able to really do something ‘cause you’re gonna question all these things. So the…

 

32:30

H: …conflict at that time with North Korea- invaded South Korea. Came over the 39th and the United States was protecting, not only that country, but its duty to stand up for what’s right. That’s how we entered the war.I mean, they didn’t declare war on us, we were a police action. So that’s what the adjustment uh… just came along. I have memories of it, but I don’t…

 

33:00

H: I don’t think of it too often but something I see now in today’s area where you have North Korea again. So how do I look at it from then and now? You get into politics, which I don’t want to get into because it’s really a political thing, all of what is happening today. What will prevail will prevail, hopefully it will work out well,

 

33:30

trying to be neutral and all that.

 

R: Are there any life lessons you learned from military service?

 

H: Don’t volunteer (laughs). Life lessons.. Life is precious, life is very precious because at times you could have gotten killed, but at 21 or 22, you don’t think about it much, but I think now when some situation comes about, I was there,

 

34:00

and I could have gotten killed and that’s a thing. But what makes me feel… not corny… I was there when the country needed me, and that was very good to me. It keeps me going, it is very sentimental to me. That the country needed me and thousands of us answered that call.

 

34:30

That is the most important thing.

 

R: What message would you like to leave for anyone who will view this interview at any point?

 

H: First of all, I am highly flattered doing this. I hope it reaches some kind of benefit to somebody,

 

35:00

whatever your goal may be and get an idea that this is the greatest country there is. To serve, and stand up for this country is an honor. And that is the most important thing I think young people today should know. That they are living in a country in a time when

 

35:30

they should be the proudest there is. A lot of politics comes into this, but that’s not my expertise in the political arena.

 

R: So, would you serve for the U.S. again if you could?

 

H: I would serve in the U.S. somewhat again, I would serve my country, certainly not as a soldier cause…

 

36:00

H: …I don’t think it would be, I would be up to that. I would probably volunteer in some area that would a beneficial in the country’s need.

 

R: Would you support the unification of North and South Korea?

 

H: Would I support unification of North and South Korea… Wel

 

36:30

I don’t, again here we are in politics because I don’t know how much North Korea can be unified. We’re fighting them now, so it’s up to the powers to be, right now it’s the president of the United States who is the most, will be the most influential person to see what happens and

 

37:00

hopefully he calls or Congress calls or whoever is going to call makes the right decisions.

 

R: Have you returned to Korea since?

 

H: No, no

 

R: Would you be interested in returning?

 

H: I have a feeling I’d like to try and go back to Japan with my wife as a tourist and everything, I’d probably be interested in seeing Seoul

 

37:30

which is the capital of Korea, which is probably a metropolis at this time rather than when you saw it (before) you saw huts. You didn’t see buildings but you saw huts. One of the jobs I had was being a projectionist- movie projectionist. I would get a jeep it would take me to the place where I’d get the film, comeback put on the film for the nighttime three or for nights a week show film. So uh

 

38:00

I don’t know where this is leading to I just lost my train of thought, but I did some other things then just that, but I forgot the question to be honest with you.

 

R: You answered it, I just asked if you would be interested in returning to Seoul.

 

H: Probably if I got to Japan I would go to Korea and go to Seoul just to see it. I couldn’t see where I was

 

38:30

because I didn’t know where I was. I have no idea where I was, I wasn’t in a city, or if it was a city it was a 22 letter thing Jeong do whatever it would be. It was in the hills, so I spent almost 13 months in the hills. We did have what they called R&R which rest and recuperation and when you get a certain amount of time in you go to Japan for a week so you have recreation, and that was that.

 

39:00

I went once, I was eligible a second time but I had a conflict there with a sergeant and I’m still brood- no I’m not brooding over it now, but I could have gone a second time. That was an escape from where you were.

 

R: Is there anything else that we have not talked about that you’d like to add to this interview?

 

H: I’m flattered again honored.

 

39:30

the only thing I can repeat is that we were there when the country needed us. To me that’s a very very important thing, and hopefully, I’m addressing some young fellows here, not that I hope that you don’t have to but that’s depending on what the world situation is, but uh it’s an experience. It’s a learning experience

 

40:00

of meeting a lot of different people from different parts of the states. Different creeds, different colors, different religions all being mixed up into a barrel and how you get along. People don’t know your customs even though they’re Americans they don’t know what your heritage is, where’d you come from, what you believe in, religion there’s a multitude of things that enter all of this

 

40:30

So I can’t pinout one particular thing.

 

R: What can you say about the legacy of Korean War Veterans?

 

H: The legacy that we left was was we served our country. Again it comes back to that thing, we served our country when they needed us, and that to me, I’ve said it three or four times I don’t want to be redundant, but that’s,

 

41:00

that is I think the essence of who we are, who this country is. We were there and it was something new. It was a duty, it was an honor, all these things were wrapped up in one.

 

R: Once again thank you very much Mr. Harvey. That concludes our interview. I’d like to thank you for coming and sharing your story with us.

 

H: It was really enjoyable I thank you all. Really, really thank you for having me.