John Atkins

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I’m John Atkins J-O-H-N  A-T-K-I-N-S what is

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your birthday 7/23/33 and we’re you born

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Oklahoma City Oklahoma and tell me about

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your parents you were growing up your

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parents and your siblings my father

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worked in Douglas Aircraft industry

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during World War two he worked for

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industry after World War two

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he worked up they worked some more for

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Douglas my mother was a registered nurse

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she graduated from the verdicts hospital

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skilled nursing and Jonesboro Arkansas

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my father was from Siloam Springs

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Arkansas

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I had one sister her name was Katherine

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she married an individual named Marlon

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Rhodes he was from Drumright Oklahoma

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they lived in Tulsa Oklahoma she passed

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away this year he passed away several

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years ago

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my sister was four years younger than

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myself

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you told me that your father walked out

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them Douglas Aircraft whoa during World

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War Two yes what is the exact name of

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that company Douglas Aircraft I

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guess yeah so it’s a big building which

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is now part of tinker field which is the

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repair depot for the Air Force in

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Oakland which is Midwest City Midwest

01:51

City before it became a big place like

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this today was a place I used to say if

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I would hunt for rabbits if she hunted

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on the south side a 29th Street pre

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mercy ready to raise the Jackrabbits you

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hunted

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on the north side you raided the

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cottontails and Douglas was built during

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World War two first of all I built c-47s

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cargo planes and then later on toward

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the end of the war the c-54 came into

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existence and they were built in c-54s

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so your father walked during the World

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War two yes so tell me about what you

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know on national sort of mobilization

02:47

u.s. people American people during the

02:50

World War two how do they work I mean

02:53

they were all pay attention to the world

02:56

war two right they were all mobilized

02:58

you know mobilize basically everything

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was geared toward being unified United

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to win the war we had European war we

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were fighting first of all fought the

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country call Italy and Italy after Italy

03:21

surrendered then to fight Germany the

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other fear we had was just was fighting

03:32

the Japanese the Japanese invaded our

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country on the Island of Hawaii Pearl

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Harbor and on December the 7th 1941 on

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December the 8th I believe Theodore

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Roosevelt or not Roosevelt

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President Roosevelt declared war had

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Congress declare war on Germany and

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Japan

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first of all Japan Japan and later as

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Germany’s I recalled everything was

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geared toward being United the American

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flag became a very rallying cry around

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people safe everything we had stamps she

04:20

couldn’t buy a pair of shoes unless you

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had a stamp to buy it you

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my tires where she had stamps to buy the

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tires you couldn’t buy petroleum for the

04:30

cars etc and they put making automobiles

04:33

and started making a war machinery I

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believe in free became a very devout

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towards making boats planes vehicles and

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training troops and billing military

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buildings and installations to train

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troops in tinker field was I heard the

04:57

individual professor Atkinson who was a

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journalism professor from Oklahoma City

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University talked about he got the idea

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of improve developing Midwest City

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Oklahoma because he found out that the

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Air Force was going to build somewhere

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in the Oklahoma City area a repair depot

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for the airplanes and he checked it out

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and looked all over Oklahoma State

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inside that place most likely would be

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and it had not been announced and

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strictly his thinking Lee it probably in

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the southeast part of Oklahoma City

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where there are a lot of family farms

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and sector and he wanted to start buying

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land out there so he could devote the

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city called Midwest City Oklahoma to

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house the lives etc of guys who’s

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becoming in Oklahoma City in the

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military and also the civilians would be

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coming in there to refer planes and in

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Douglas was going to build a big plant

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there in part of town so he fir he

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needed built a lot of buildings and my

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village so he got interested in buying

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land in that part of the country and he

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is sadly since it was old farmers have

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owned the land and it was farmers he had

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to deal with he had to learn how to milk

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a cow so for $20 his college professor

06:26

would out and learn how to milk a cow so

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they can go talk to the people at that

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part of the country or that part of the

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city who owned land and he wouldn’t talk

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to him about settlement so you could buy

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it

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and he talked to you it’s not cows and

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talk to him all at the same time that’s

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drug the way in which Midwest City was

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debuff which came about Katrina the Air

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Force gulped the ticker filled the need

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of this aircraft company developed the

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building there on Douglas a building

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which was 3/4 of a mile long if I recall

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correctly I make three quarter to

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quarter smile something about it exactly

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remember that was back in 1942 at forty

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two thousand nine year old kid the

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building was built in most of the short

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period of time

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I remember there was only one window in

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the whole building that was on the

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second floor for the CEO of that plant

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lived with his family everything was

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rationed like I said before and very

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everything was being patriotic patriotic

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parade patriotic music and we had

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nightly we have periodic presidential

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radio conversations that call fireside

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chats back from President Roosevelt the

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war ended in August Germany surrendered

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May 1945 the war ended with each Japan

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surrendered in april of nineteen Canales

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nineteen

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so the world war ii was the war of whole

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nation whole nation donations

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involuntarily and everybody anxious to

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win and if I was 1.9 and everybody

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wanted actually Riley we wouldn’t meet

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under one so when the troops returned

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you’d really have a big one yeah be

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afraid I’m never talking to being who

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had been with the forty-fifth they went

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into Angelo with history Germany when

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they were

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disband had their final four

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nation in Germany it goes into the city

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we’re sad to see which Germany had the

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concentration as Dachau inside the

09:07

Austrians no doctor doc house it was a

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German prison camp but this is ended

09:14

Munich in Munich they had a big car

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Hitler used to go and he would close

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they lock up the bars and people who

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drink and he speed office so it was a

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big place where they headed rallying the

09:29

troops for Germany we had our final

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formation the 45th Infantry Division

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there in Munich in 1945 the 45th came

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home it was a big parade down Main

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Street and everybody was very definitely

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interested in hey go home the war is

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over with that war it all wars at Bingo

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and then Korean war came after that and

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it contrasts so much so different right

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the American people didn’t pay attention

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to it it wasn’t really the legendary war

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here to remember Harry Truman triggered

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that he could not get Congress to

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declare a war so he did not clear a war

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he realized nobody could do is make use

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of presidential powers and he had so he

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declared it a police action and we heard

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the police action and we started sitting

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troops now I have to say that I had a

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inside idea what was going to happen to

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Korea by uncle mine who had been with it

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24th Infantry Division 24th or 25th I

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didn’t recall which but he had been with

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one of those two infantry divisions as

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an engineer right now he was sent to

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Korea right after the war was over

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actually he was on a ship

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you mean World War two after World War

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two is over with he was on a ship headed

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to the Far East to be involved in that

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war but in place of going into Japan to

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fight the plane

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surrendered by the time he got to the

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Pacific and he ended up in career with

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the 24th to the 25th ID what’s his name

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his name was C last name was salmon

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salmon salmon I say mmm

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oh it is he went by name Jay Jay Salmons

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okay I’m gonna step C wrong that is my

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uncle’s is my mother’s brother

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and so he was one of the first troops to

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go into Korea after the Spencer injured

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right in 1948 when Truman and General

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Eisenhower decided that we were going to

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cut down our troops that we had in

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Korean he was sent home leave to go to

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Japan to be octorok part of the

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Occupational forces at that time 1948 I

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had a paper route and he visited my

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parents in Oklahoma City and one

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afternoon while we were I was delivering

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my papers he’s asking for is Korea

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you said it yeah I said where is Corey I

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don’t think we knew where Korea was no

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career was somewhere in the Far East but

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la-la-land as far as most people was

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concerned and this part of the country

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we did with Pearl Harbor was a we with

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Philippines and some of the other parts

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but Korea was not a part of our

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vocabulary other than it existed

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somewhere on the map that’s where is

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career he’d begin to give you some

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information as to what’s going on over

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there and why are you coming home he

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said well it has been decided that we

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have too many troops over there and so

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they’re pretty much they go take care of

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themselves and we’re going to Japan they

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have no occupational forces varies in

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High River there’s going to be a war

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there John you’re your 1948 he could

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this could be a war there in 1948 and

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you are going to be a part of it that’s

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what I said you are going to be a part

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of it now I was in high school at that

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time

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no I don’t think so Jensen there’s going

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to be a war that every cost the country

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has been divided north and south and so

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therefore Korean has always been a

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country that’s been involved one on one

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country or another country china and

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japan or somebody’s been occupying them

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and one of these days they’re going to

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be a united country but russia has got

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the northern part we are occupying the

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southern part the one of these days the

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north is going to try to invade he says

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this is what we hear from the help from

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the people that we have come in contact

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with you have to remember I think

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enlisted means probably have more

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contact with the enlisted people whether

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civilians in the city than officers did

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and I think he had a pretty good contact

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with a lot of his people in Korea than

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he had dealt with according to them

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there is going to be a conflict where

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they were not Korea is one country not

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to and that occurs that war is going to

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be fought and he since tours we didn’t

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forward to – not in all wars this is

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going to be another one and you’re going

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to be a part of it I said what about you

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so I’m going to be home I’m going to

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Japan and I’m going to be up my even

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list it’s going to be up in two years

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and I’m going to be back home and you’re

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going to be the one who has to go then

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five it turned out to be that he was one

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of the first troops to go into Korea

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from Japan because the war occurred much

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quicker than he thought it was going to

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occur Creek started in June of 1950 in

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July of 1950 he was in Korea he was

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going to last he tells me he’s probably

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the last individuals to see general Dean

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in his driver before general Dean was

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captured so long video first Cavalier or

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toxeus no he was not for he was general

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Dean was General for the 24th

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yeah 5th 2014 so general Dean was a

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commanding officer for the 24th Infantry

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Division Geraldine was a train station

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with a preserved earth with his jeep

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driver his jeep driver was going to load

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the bazooka so they could not get tanks

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at that train station he says it takes

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come through

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we’re going knock to take set the GA

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said I said my uncle’s name was James

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his dignity who else went by them ga ga

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said general if you will go with us we

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know how to get out of here and we can

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get you and your driver out of here and

15:47

we can get back down to Busan he said no

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you all go ahead

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g3 can make it you go ahead you go ahead

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and make it back to Pusan we’re going to

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stay here and not got the Russian tanks

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they’re coming through here make it

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easier if y’all guys to come back and

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win this war

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he left general Dean he made down the

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Poussin and then later on in September

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of 1950 because his enlistment was

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already over with

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he had his listed extended twice while

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he was over there Gordon’s in Korea he

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was brought home and discharged in

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October of 1950 so basically like I said

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I had some idea that we were I was on

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fight of War and he gave me said I’ll

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tell you what there’s two things I’m

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gonna give you I’m going to give you a

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ring that I have made from a stainless

16:40

steel nut that you wear and you can work

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when you go to Corinne and you can

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remember what I told you and also is

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going to give you because bite a lot

16:49

happens if I struck me shaving off more

16:51

frequently so here’s my razor

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let’s release if I can hold on we give

16:54

you my new Gillette razor that I bought

16:56

in Korea before I came home so I end up

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with two things and I still have the

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Rings I do I had the arranged meeting

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work oh and I gave my I gave the ring to

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my youngest son when I gave him some

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souvenirs of mine from career such as my

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dog tag my infantry patch my uncle’s

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patch and cetera so he has it in his

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bedroom so that’s how I knew about we

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were going to fight a war in place

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called Korea before is there a right now

17:25

water story water story Europe your

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uncle must be no kind of prophet

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Butler is a prophet just like I said you

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know do you what a little enlisted me

17:38

knew what was going on and I’ve heard

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several enlisted new mixes

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you said so what are you writing a paper

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when your uncle visited your home in

17:50

Oklahoma but I write the paper no I was

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in that why did you ask that question

17:55

because what because he was there he was

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it with the two of us it was walk along

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with me where I delivered my papers on

18:01

my paper route and so you know where

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have you been what school where is it

18:06

located and what’s going on there and

18:08

what did you do why are you there

18:10

typical kids you and just like me asking

18:13

you questions you know and so I knew

18:16

that during World War two

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my mother was a nurse I remember when

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the nursing nurses came to interview her

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because they have courtrand records she

18:27

was still single and once they realized

18:29

that she was married and had two

18:31

children she was exempt from going on to

18:33

active duty but they made her a civil

18:37

defense nurse and as a civil defense

18:39

nurse she was issued sent in the mail

18:43

and went belt with a canteen a canteen

18:46

cup and military belt that was used by

18:52

the medics in World War one that you see

18:54

that minute you see that belt in world

18:56

war ii world war one Memorial here in

18:59

Kansas City

19:00

it’s very end of it you’ll see a belt

19:02

that was more about medics World War one

19:05

 

my wife’s grandfather wore about like

19:07

that so I had some idea for Boy Scouts

19:13

Boy Scouts are very multi realistic we

19:17

had we had inspections in our uniforms

19:19

we then we were sharp-looking soldiers

19:21

as kids at the Boy Scouts but school

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didn’t teach you of all Korea all know

19:26

it’s curry Korea was we learned about

19:28

just we learned about Pearl Harbor and

19:30

Panama Canal was something is being

19:34

built there in Dakotas where the adult

19:41

II memorial for the person is statues of

19:45

them we were learned about we saw it

19:47

constantly being built we saw other

19:51

things much more we saw other things

19:55

being being built at that time

19:57

and I thought not Korea Korea was cream

20:01

the Korea was never really a part of

20:03

World War two it was Japan occupied it

20:08

and Roosevelt made a treaty with Stalin

20:14

that if he would declare war on Japan

20:16

they would get part of it and so after

20:21

the Germans have surrendered my recall

20:25

is correct Stalin when they woke up say

20:28

hey I’m about to lose out on getting

20:30

some free land if I was just a claret

20:33

war on your area and playing war on

20:37

Japan you know and I can get some Korean

20:39

land for free because they’ve already

20:42

dropped two atomic bombs and since they

20:44

dropped two atomic bombs and their

20:46

Emperor’s always say let’s surrender we

20:48

lost too many people are ready the

20:50

surrender all those Japanese were not

20:52

interested in it the people were

20:57

interested in surrendering and so it’s

21:01

taught us and we will enter the war and

21:04

he declared war in every play truth

21:06

they’ve had a single troop into Korea

21:09

and fear in that period of time and just

21:11

got freebie land so when your uncle told

21:14

you that you’re going to be there and

21:16

you’re going to where is a war there did

21:19

you believe that I figured guidance is

21:24

talking about you know use military

21:27

means they don’t whole lot so as a kid

21:29

yeah I figured well probably here you’ll

21:32

find out something about it in daytime

21:35

when did you when war in Korea Austin

21:38

Korea our leaders in Korea in December

21:40

of 1951 and I came out and in July 52

21:44

July 52 so tell me about Korea you just

21:51

came to a encountered ran across about

21:55

this country named because of your uncle

21:57

I said you are there for about a year

22:00

and a six months or seven seven months

22:04

what is Korea to you now the Korea that

22:07

you heard from your uncle now what is

22:10

Korea to you well great eyes

22:11

I would like to Korea in 99 I’ll return

22:17

the return trip was it a couple of money

22:21

invitations yes it was and when I got

22:26

the pen with John then looked over

22:28

because I spent my time in a place

22:30

called a type of thing why this take

22:35

money take money is updated by pork chop

22:38

hill and a Baldy I spent most of my time

22:41

on the Old Baldy area I was in the GRS

22:44

section of the 45th different I was new

22:48

quartermaster the 45th Infantry Division

22:50

GRS section and I spent most of my time

22:53

probably up there in the line where we

22:56

were recovering bodies from eaters

23:00

Americans allied forces the enemy’s

23:03

forces and I probably one time I got to

23:08

talk to a couple of Chinese while I

23:12

visited China in 1992 who we probably

23:17

looked at each other across the field or

23:19

no-man’s land at one time so if I went

23:22

back in 99 to seek Korea at their

23:25

invitation and I look from across at the

23:31

38th parallel

23:32

it hasn’t changed it was still dirt

23:35

roads the old six guys had a hard time

23:38

finding nothing space to keep all their

23:41

duels on the road a couple of cases

23:44

where we had six buyers turned over

23:46

because the road gave way on them but

23:49

when you got down to Seoul Seoul was

23:54

like going into New York City except as

23:56

a miniature of New York City

23:58

they had street vendors they had people

24:04

who very cordial I which came back from

24:08

Korea and 52 nobody said hey what

24:14

welcome home the question where have you

24:17

been I was a high school dropout not

24:20

that I plan to be a high school dropout

24:22

but 1953

24:24

Harry Truman activated I was getting

24:27

ready to go into my senior year in the

24:29

high school and I was activated I was in

24:33

the 45th Infantry Division National

24:36

Guard in May of 1950 in June of 1950

24:41

North Korea invaded in July of 1950 I

24:46

turned 17 in August of 1950 I started in

24:50

summer camp

24:51

noon in route to summer camp eaten

24:54

Chiklis in a box chicken lunch

24:56

the commander our company surrendered

24:59

hearing down the heels – hey get back in

25:02

the vehicles we’re going back to

25:04

Oklahoma City we’ve just been activated

25:06

we’re going to start training as a unit

25:12

again as a division for combat

25:14

so the rocked Oklahoma City on the 22nd

25:19

of August I took my hand up and I swore

25:23

allegiance to the American flag and to

25:25

the press to our country and we were

25:30

activated with camp Polk Louisiana

25:32

training camp Polk Louisiana with the

25:35

schools and of course we were being

25:38

training is the same time they’re going

25:39

to training we were also have to go

25:40

school I spent more time in school I

25:43

think what hours and the guards it has

25:46

been a split or in the military did that

25:48

with a split going to school because I

25:50

would for trolley for school or with the

25:52

Fort Benning for leadership school we

25:55

got on a ship down in New Orleans to go

26:00

through the Panama Canal which I speak

26:02

the pattern of the traveling big milk

26:04

during all the various stages of it

26:07

during weekly nice plate readers we

26:09

wrote then in grace junior high school

26:12

in high school so when did you leave for

26:14

Korea when I leave for Korea’s young I

26:17

left for Korea and Japan from Japan on

26:19

about the well the 10th of December of

26:31

d 151 so where were you landed in Korea

26:35

in John Incheon and I remember the

26:41

skipper said when we got off the ship as

26:43

I look after midnight

26:45

he said just warmly it is 40 degrees

26:48

below outside and some guy in the lines

26:52

here get ready grab gameplays is that

26:55

Fahrenheit or centigrade and I later

26:59

found out that I majored in chemistry in

27:01

college minus 40 degrees that’s the

27:05

point the two skills come together and

27:10

but then we got up into the low balling

27:16

pork chop hill area then what was your

27:19

unit again the 45th Infantry Division

27:21

45th ID infantry and the regimen or

27:27

belong to forfeit forfeit forfeit

27:29

quartermaster company and I was attached

27:32

to I think the 279 well not sure wise

27:36

attached to when I was up in Korea

27:38

because we were attached to some outfit

27:42

there was a line company right and what

27:45

was your mos naval has been arrested no

27:52

no you don’t need to tell me no number

27:54

but what did you do what is national –

27:57

yes I was involved with going out and

27:59

picking up bodies and then we did patrol

28:03

of that and patrolling that we pick up

28:04

by census killed sometime during the

28:09

period of time we picked up bodies that

28:12

and then burnt flamethrower I used to

28:15

think my salt John Wayne during World

28:18

War two movies man that flamethrower was

28:21

a weapon I’m going to have they just

28:23

burn up everything have to worry about

28:25

now kind of realize that flamethrowers

28:27

not a good weapon the Kerry weighed

28:29

about 70 80 pounds it has six to eight

28:32

second to second burst in it and then

28:34

you had a dead weapon so but I realized

28:37

that from going out and picking up

28:39

bodies we picked up bodies at this burn

28:42

Andrea picked up by saving

28:44

it was a trifle in one we had dead

28:51

patrol we did scouting work when we went

28:53

out sometimes we would wet with a scout

28:56

patrol we would come back and do the

28:59

paperwork and cause according to the

29:00

Geneva Convention you have to bury your

29:02

dead so we have a leap establish a

29:05

cemetery there in North Korea and we

29:08

would bury the dead we saw we if there

29:14

was a see anywhere on be part of their

29:18

dog tag great thing Richard we had

29:20

across another glass

29:22

it was a marker that the persons and we

29:28

would put as much of information on that

29:29

dog tag that we put on the cross another

29:33

marker that we put the grave all the

29:37

very all the bodies were buried once

29:39

more with head point for the east like

29:42

he would see here and our cemeteries and

29:44

all them were buried with basically at

29:49

we blow a hole because his isotope the

29:51

most exudes hold out and ground stick

29:54

stick of dynamite of healing ground and

29:56

the hole in it and bury the person in it

29:59

and Kerrigan mess so you were in Korea

30:05

as your uncle predicted and when you

30:09

were picking up the dead bodies burned

30:11

and killed brutally killed what were you

30:14

thinking to yourself more help more is

30:19

help and I saw look we saw all these

30:23

here lately for we’ve seen Isis go in

30:26

there and cut off heads and separate

30:29

server the hits and the bike yeah I

30:31

dealt with some Greeks and some Turks

30:33

and they were really bad about wanting

30:37

to work their artillery they were going

30:39

hit a certain place early in the morning

30:42

they wonder what the firing pattern was

30:44

of the artillery if I could get sign out

30:47

the firing pattern for them I get relate

30:50

to the commander he’s going in and they

30:52

take they’re not

30:56

an answer swords ancestor and into the

31:00

into the field they would go it without

31:04

that he was respect for the artillery

31:06

coming in I came to realize real quickly

31:13

I did not what the fact those kind of

31:15

guys made known over he spake I also

31:20

came to realize that first time I got

31:25

fired ad was by a second lieutenant

31:30

they were lieutenant and three of us out

31:34

on patrol and going to pick up a body

31:37

and that was a small shell just passed

31:46

me and we decided look we’re equipped in

31:51

characters so and so and we’d get to go

31:56

in R&R; because he captured you got three

31:59

days R&R; so we were going to catch that

32:01

individual and it turned out to be after

32:06

a couple of votes came pretty close not

32:10

to lieutenant I said and he was an

32:12

ex-marine from World War two he said I

32:16

said no-till give me permission sir I’ll

32:18

knock that boy I’m not that bad boy out

32:20

of commission I got 200 names here and I

32:23

can hit that oh boy real quick like no

32:25

we’re going to capture but turned out to

32:27

be I think he was the lieutenant he was

32:30

kind of lizard and he would I know we

32:37

sitting back he got he he went back to

32:39

the rear but how does the first time I

32:41

got shot at another time I got we got

32:45

involved with her that I died after I

32:51

landed in Korea we had panicked national

32:55

game of the Korean GI who’s blackjack

32:59

your duty picking up dead bodies does

33:02

that bother you now does that come up

33:06

like a flesh or a night I think

33:09

when I was in college and I taken

33:17

comparison entry and I had a comparative

33:21

anatomy course final come whenever and I

33:27

had a dream to not in 40 jail yeah I am

33:35

have you talked and some of them things

33:42

that you would see most of us are frozen

33:46

because it’s cold very cold but as a

33:57

Irish support that young I’ve been asked

34:05

a question when I spoke to some small

34:08

groups occasionally with young men and

34:12

some people asking the question well how

34:16

many did you kill I don’t know I know

34:19

nobody gently decide let’s make sure

34:22

sure hitches isn’t how many I killed

34:24

them

34:24

I’m interested in coming back home and I

34:29

felt very confident that I was coming

34:32

back home I remember under not before we

34:41

landed in Incheon the next day I gotta

34:45

have a so meeting and I was tough very

34:50

tough and I was going to be back home

34:52

I’d might want to come back home it’s in

34:54

part of my body not being there I felt

34:56

like I stay home intact and I’d yet but

34:59

I stop and think about today as we think

35:04

about I have a grandson who just

35:06

graduated from high school 18 years old

35:10

and I think you know analysis age I was

35:14

learning about surviving not summit

35:18

excellent fellows learned how to survive

35:19

in

35:20

feel and what’s going to happen to him

35:23

hmm

35:24

so I yeah I have I don’t haven’t thought

35:28

too much about all of that until I think

35:32

about my grandson today I have a son who

35:37

retired from the Army is a bird Colonel

35:44

this man in fact I’m not sure what he

35:51

was interviewed for yesterday but he’s

35:55

energy for something too he’s retired

35:58

and he puts in Washington DC has an

36:01

office expended on me guitar evolving

36:03

something to go back career to be

36:07

involved somewhere there and I think

36:09

invited me and what’s his room comedic

36:13

career if I go back to Korea when I went

36:15

back in 99 any way that we were received

36:19

and said to I came to realize you know

36:21

it was worthwhile

36:22

well there was times I learned with what

36:25

in the hell are we doing here and why

36:29

the we shed so much blood

36:32

when I was younger but today I come back

36:36

and say no freedom is not free and

36:40

somebody had to pay and I’ve seen pay us

36:44

you know bloody and shit on both sides

36:47

and Street you went back in 1999 and Tom

36:54

Stephens was sitting beside you been to

36:57

Korea so many times very recently and

36:59

the Korea used so in 1999 and now it’s

37:03

completely different how you are you

37:05

aware of that who I know it I know it

37:07

of course when I saw at night when I saw

37:10

know what South Korea I spent the bulk

37:14

of my time in North Korea I mean I asked

37:17

the question you might like North hell I

37:19

have nothing to gain it I bet I spent

37:22

nine months in North Korea so why should

37:24

I want to go back but we got into

37:28

Incheon we guys in Incheon since late

37:31

early in the morning metal for shit

37:34

we walked right on boards on Train

37:38

boxcars that were unfit for cattle

37:42

because they lack canola if see cracks

37:45

in the floor no wonder here’s the color

37:47

there’s no heat in this thing in so we

37:51

saw felt cold as that or we had I think

37:57

the main thing that we really one of the

37:59

things we worried about some legends how

38:02

cold it was and how we had to keep our

38:05

weapons from freezing them because even

38:08

the oil just kind of service this thing

38:11

we had to worry about then I take a look

38:14

to see well I saw it pennilyn John when

38:17

I looked over at North Korea it didn’t

38:20

look any different than like this and I

38:22

left when I went back then in 99 it was

38:29

still there Oh Baldy and porkchop had no

38:32

I didn’t see them but I saw that area

38:34

where I saw South Korea which basically

38:39

Wallowa said before don’t tell myself

38:41

South Korea was going to replacement

38:43

Depot’s and coming home and I remember I

38:47

talked to when I was having lunch with a

38:52

group of individuals from Lipton tea I

38:56

worked and so one guy asked me about

39:01

Korean our seasons what do you remember

39:04

about Korea I was one thing I remember

39:07

was helping to feed the use of Korea a

39:14

lot roots like corn to replacement

39:16

opposed I said I never went to

39:19

replacement Depot going into Korea

39:21

because we were we were always sad we

39:23

know everyone didn’t really going they

39:25

coming back home we had to come through

39:26

the replacement dip house and one of the

39:29

sites that I can see is the mama songs

39:35

and kids say their toes barbed wire

39:38

fences and the kids with their hands out

39:42

with one piece of fruit because when I

39:45

first went through that first

39:47

the depth I went through was outside

39:50

Incheon and I was to Richardson to have

39:53

an apple and some big old mess charges

39:55

he barricaded Apple sexy boy and so I

39:59

took an apple and after I got out I

40:02

always thought I had two or three apples

40:03

because I only had one half of a given

40:05

word and I saw kids sliding under those

40:09

barbed wire fences hey mission is to

40:12

this garbage kids and scooping it all up

40:15

a niche and so I said that’s one of the

40:21

things I really took my mind and his

40:24

kids having to hide hard while laughing

40:26

livings and I Cecilia never I went to

40:32

the Ness hog took two to three apples if

40:35

I could take silent take more if they

40:37

let me dream on I’ll be here we had no

40:39

problem giving apples because I thought

40:41

there’s evidence of hands never apples

40:43

to fall the hands around for an apple

40:46

and this one guy said I looked at the

40:51

table this’ll work had also shipped here

40:54

coming up as Isis you know he may have

40:57

fed me one day he said you’ve been

40:59

either

41:00

basically somebody said you because I

41:01

remember taking those battles and that

41:04

is a touching moment and any individual

41:09

I had a very post-conflict contact with

41:12

each other for years

41:13

so that’s probably the thing which hit

41:17

me most of all that because I was I’ve

41:19

only ha they finally back at South

41:22

Koreans beautiful I have to tell you one

41:24

thing now laugh and I went back to South

41:28

Korea and with one afternoon we had an

41:30

afternoon off and she wanted to go into

41:33

downtown and so to see what we liked so

41:37

we got on the train and took the train

41:39

down and and got off the train there and

41:44

pretty close to go to Gulf the training

41:47

we sashayed through department stores

41:49

and street vendors and we ate food and

41:53

everything is about two o’clock 3:30

41:56

afternoon my losses you know I think

41:58

them about

41:58

to go back to our apartment or how bring

42:01

that Lassiter Hotel I said well I don’t

42:04

know exactly how to get from here back

42:06

to train station now look I know how do

42:10

we got here selling local toys so I said

42:14

that this morning I saw four young men

42:18

in their early twenties the college

42:21

students and I you know until I said do

42:25

any of you speak English because my life

42:27

and I like know how the best ways to get

42:29

from here to the train station and when

42:33

they hear minister cases mr. Bertrand I

42:37

speak to your spirit England the screw

42:39

anyway here I’ll be right back with you

42:42

so he went over and talked these guys

42:44

and I had picked up the idea he was

42:47

leaving them and they were going

42:49

someplace I said she’s a kid man he said

42:51

then I will take you to the train

42:53

station I see he’s just dismissed

42:56

yourself from your group that’s all

42:58

rises in English that’s all right I know

43:00

where they’re going

43:01

and after I get you taken care of I will

43:04

meet them for going on some fun so

43:07

anyway and as we turned he says you were

43:10

in train station dice no I don’t know a

43:12

train station because that train station

43:14

was not here when I was in he give us a

43:17

real true as we went from where we were

43:19

to train station and we got to the train

43:21

station that mr. veteran if you give me

43:26

so much money I forgot mercilessly

43:28

I’ll get your ticket for you this is

43:30

where we buy your ticket I said fine so

43:32

I give it to him he says now and we will

43:36

go down the steps here and I will take

43:39

you time Eastern Sun and he got my wife

43:43

we get down to the trains come and go he

43:49

says now he said this is the side that

43:51

she wants us to stand by this door here

43:54

what stand on the gate on the platform

43:56

here on this side because yes I was

43:58

taking out out of town so this will take

44:01

you to your hotel and so he stayed there

44:06

with us until the train came and her

44:09

trailer

44:10

this is

44:10

about 4 o’clock the afternoon now the

44:12

train is loaded and then some by sitting

44:15

in a seat and segoe

44:18

you get up this veterans wife’s gotta

44:21

sit there in the England for jumped up

44:24

now I sit down there and we got great

44:27

really received the very best we wish we

44:31

were received in Korea like the present

44:34

United States would be except we just

44:35

didn’t join a limousine so you know such

44:44

contrast we made right the great I am

44:47

from from 1950 to 1999 and current

44:53

despite such successful outcome since

44:56

World War two name any word that you can

44:59

remember that came up with such

45:02

successful outcome the US has ever

45:04

involved I don’t thinks all right

45:07

probably not I don’t know any country

45:09

has very invited us back if they’re

45:11

caught a third and is by paid for us to

45:14

come see their country you see what we

45:15

did for so therefore that respect I say

45:18

yeah

45:18

ll gave I say hey we thank you in either

45:23

device despite such success in high

45:27

school world history textbook Korean War

45:31

is just about this cuz I why is that and

45:36

how can we overcome that I was weekend

45:39

you think we’re work you think World War

45:41

one is even smaller today I think the

45:46

whole point was to what the America was

45:50

not ready to fight another war true

45:54

endures America was not ready to fight

45:56

another war Truman knew that Korea could

46:00

not be invaded by the communist country

46:04

if I understand correctly my history in

46:08

1948 North Korea wants to invade South

46:14

Korea and Stalin was the person who kept

46:18

him from evading

46:21

in 1949 they wanted a in 1950 they gave

46:27

permission he promised to be in a scoria

46:30

in 90 days of max 120 days after Dean

46:34

Acheson excluded defensive parameters

46:37

from the Korean Peninsula aside so the

46:43

situation was affected

46:45

we’d never declared war and I think in

46:48

the 90s we find declared the war but

46:50

it’s all over with all of us my guys

46:54

Laurie died natural deaths who’d come

46:57

back home from war from Korea you have

47:00

to remember that a few years ago World

47:03

War two veterans were dying very

47:06

politically today is the Korean War

47:08

veterans who died it’s just a few

47:10

because only a few veterans were or two

47:12

left and this kids whereas few and sheer

47:15

lesbian left Korea was not a country

47:18

that was have any real significance in

47:22

the life of most Americans and denied

47:25

any significance until they had somebody

47:28

who was involved with the conflict and

47:33

it’s only been within the last few years

47:36

we’ve seen Korea know Korea did not

47:39

immediately come back into the

47:41

prosperity it has today but as the

47:43

prosperity became more and more common

47:45

where a prevalent thing that we had to

47:47

deal with in the world where is this

47:50

economy going where as I’m coming with

47:52

the Korea has become a very economical

47:54

power in the world

47:56

a true pimp as a financial world so but

48:02

Korea was never thought of to be a

48:05

powerhouse I know that the Koreans were

48:09

not like why I’m saying I really touched

48:11

to say that the Japanese did you are a

48:13

favor when they transport it they put

48:15

Korea on wheels on the train because

48:18

Korea was where I understand was not a

48:22

very progressive country and to Japan

48:24

came in and put them on wheels of a

48:28

train and I know the is always some good

48:34

everything bad invasion of Japanese and

48:38

careers bad the question but the idea

48:41

for this could be on wheels are making

48:43

them mobile this country here would not

48:45

be heard we are today if we hadn’t have

48:47

anyone to bring trains the cars at

48:49

playing ships etc years ago countries

48:53

we’re only great if they were on runways

48:55

because she is really important thing

48:56

but if you know the history of

48:59

imperialism and colonialism you see that

49:02

the Japanese cases is uncomfortable most

49:06

atrocious form of colonial control and

49:09

so let me wrap this up I think you are

49:14

one of the most sort of how can I say

49:18

you are actually knew what I am at want

49:22

to ask and the typical question that I

49:24

am ready to ask you already talk to me

49:27

so it is wonderful case and they are not

49:31

connect you country that you didn’t know

49:35

but you came to know through your uncle

49:38

and now you seem to have a very

49:41

comprehensive understanding how prayer

49:43

was divided how the perception was of us

49:47

leaders on Korea and you’ve been there

49:50

you’ve been there again in 1999 what is

49:52

Korea to you and how do you think that

49:55

is the legacy of the Korean War can be

49:58

kept alive I think the legacy of Korean

50:00

War is because right back to the motto

50:03

that came out of Korea by the veterans

50:05

freedom is not free

50:08

mm-hmm and I think this is where each

50:11

time I have made talked about my

50:14

experience and career my experience

50:16

another about national not come first to

50:21

open comment is freedom is not free

50:25

because to hear was that we did not

50:29

become free because blood had to be shed

50:31

you go back and take a look you know

50:34

I’ve been in Singapore several times and

50:38

Singapore for Sentosa the British held

50:43

it before the Japanese

50:46

Fortson toasty they had guns in there

50:49

that could knock out anything in the

50:52

punish enemy Harbor the Japanese

50:55

diarrhea like the Singaporeans felt like

51:00

the British felt like it the British the

51:03

Japanese would come by see Japanese

51:06

remember see they came across the

51:09

causeway on bicycles and those bicycles

51:12

had machine guns mounted on them now

51:15

that there’s a tank so to speak machine

51:19

guns on a bicycle Japan Singapore

51:22

surrendered just like that the Japanese

51:25

immediately cute all the men up in the

51:29

mid were separated by the painter hand

51:33

and those he had dressed hands with this

51:36

side of the street cause he had smooth

51:37

hands with this side of the street and

51:40

all those are smooth hands the foot on

51:42

trucks take them down to the ocean front

51:44

and low down because they did knock them

51:47

around and so they got rid of them they

51:50

took the labors and they were able to

51:52

have free labor so the Japanese

51:55

Imperialism it was very damaging it was

51:59

very careless so go back to your point

52:02

freedom is not free and what are what

52:05

are the other things that you think as a

52:07

Korean legacy Korean War legacy I think

52:11

that probably the thing that we will see

52:17

how Korea has they use they have taken

52:21

the lemon and made the lemonade out of

52:23

it Jon very nice figure we had a

52:30

wonderful time

52:31

great thank you so much well thank you

52:33

sir