Trygve Jensen

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T:        I [INAUDIBLE] T for [INAUDIBLE] and R for Roma and, uh, G for [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Uh huh.

T:        V for [INAUDIBLE] and E foe Etna.

I:          And your last name is Jensen?
T:        Yes.

I:          J-E-N-S-E-N?

T:        Yes.

I:          Great.  What is your birthday?

T:        Fifteenth of December

I:          Um hm

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T:        Nineteen hundred and thirty-two.

I:          Thirty-two.  So you are now 87?

T:        I will be 87.

I:          So

T:        In a few months, yes.
I:          So you’ll be, you are 86 now?
T:        Yes.

I:          Alright.  And where were you born?

T:        In [INAUDIBLE] in Norway.

I:          Could you spell it?

T:        Oo, um, D-uh,

I:          Drum, M?

T:        E-N-N

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I:          E-N-N.

T:        Just one N.

I:          Okay.  So D and then what?

T:        A

I:          A

T:        M

I:          M

T:        M-E-N

I:          Okay

T:        Drammen.

I:          Drammen.

T:        Yeah.

I:          And tell me about your family when you were growing up, your parents and your siblings.

T:        Yes.  Well, um,

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I was, uh, living more less from when I was very, very small in a house with my grandfather in the Central part of Old Drammen.

I:          Um.
T:        And I stayed there from more less when I was born to, uh, the age of six.

I:          Uh huh.

T:        Then I moved on to another place in Drammen, also, and at that time I started in a public school.

I:          Um hm.

T:        In, um, in August in 1939.

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I:          Thirty?  19

T:        Thirty-nine.

I:          Thirty-nine.

T:        Yes.  I started in public school in Drammen.
I:          I see.
T:        And then I finished public school, but of course, we had the German occupation.  So we were thrown out of the school because the, the German soldiers occupied it for their purpose.

I:          Right.

T:        Having this [ALSO] doing that.

I:          Um.

T:        So we had to go to various different, um, communities around,

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churches and, um storehouses and [INAUDIBLE] with anything we could find.  That way we could do some training and education.  So when the War ended in ’45,

I:          Um.

T:        we came back to our original school, and I finished, uh, the Gram School was, at that time, seven years in Norway.

I:          Um.

T:        And then I went on to the high school,

I:          Um.

T:        also in Drammen,

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and that was another five years.  And after that, I started in the University of Oslo studying Science.

I:          Wow.

T:        Uh, we took first a course in Philosophy, and it was mandatory.  And then we studied Science.  I have studied, uh, Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry.

I:          When was it?  When did you get into the University of Oslo?

T:        In Autumn, ’51.  Yes.

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I:          And so at, by the time already, Korean War broke out.

T:        Yes.
I:          Did you know that Korean War break out?
T:        Yes. I, I did.  We had the [INAUDIBLE] system so we were following international politics in, uh, high school.

I:          Um.
T:        So we knew about that.  And I actually, uh, wanted to go to the first, uh, part of the

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Korean, uh, War and to the NORMASH.  But, um, I was already in the, the normal Army as a, as a paramedic, paramedic training

I:          Um

T:        in Oslo, North of Oslo and, uh, then in, uh, South of Oslo and then they sent me to the German Brigade in Germany.

I:          Oh.

T:        Uh, so I was in, the, in the occupation, the force that occupied North Germany, past the British sector.

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I:          Um.

T:        which started in Schleswig, in Schleswig-Holstein.

I:          Um.

T:        And I, uh, expected to get permission to go to, uh, the NORMASH already.  But, um, they said that, that the reason my Command said I could not go because I was in a special training course for, uh, paramedics, and I was supposed to be an officer.  Uh, so I had to wait,

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and that’s how I came to go in the 5th [INAUDIBLE] I had applied for the 4^th, but I came to be in the 5^th.

I:          So

T:        So that

I:          when did you, when did you leave for Korea?

T:        So I came back from Germany, uh, in, uh, May,  one of the first days in May.

I:          Of 19

T:        Uh, fifty-three.

I:          Fifty-three.

T:        And then I was at home just a week or

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10 days, and then I went to, um,  join the Norwegian, uh, Norwegian Surgical Army Hospital.  I, uh, so I came at the end of the War you might say.  So I had May, June, July.

I:          May, June, July?
T:        Yes.

I:          So when did you arrive in Korea?

T:        So I came in the middle of May.

I:          Middle of May.

T:        Yes.  Yes.  So, um, I have

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been in the cutting end that was part of, uh, stake in the War and part of staying was after the War.

I:          Why did you wanted to go to Korea?  I mean, there was a War, did not, there were no war in Germany when you were there, right?

T:        Um.

I:          So it was peaceful.  There was not much danger.  But when you wanted to go to Korea in 1952, it was the middle of the War.

T:        Yes.

I:          Why did you want to go there?

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I mean, were you not afraid that you might lose your life?

T:        No, no, no, no.  Went in spite of those things, uh.  It comes, it comes, and it’s not, you cannot foresee the future.  So with, uh, no.  I was, um, interested in studying medicine.  That’s why I was in the paramedic course also.

I:          Ah ha.

T:        And I thought that was an excellent opportunity to learn some first hand, uh, the truths and the giants of medicine.

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I:          Hm.

T:        So, uh, and of course I came out of that when I came to Korea, too, because the last month of the Korean War was a very bloody time.

I:          Yes.
T:        Because everybody wanted to gain a little bit more of, uh, Latin, some true [METERS] African [METERS] and killing many people on both sides of course.

I:          Uh hm.

T:        And, um, so we had an enormous,

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uh, workloads, uh, from time to time when they came in ambulances, helicopters, everything coming in, in, heaps of, uh, mountains of people coming in.  And we had to work, uh, I was working in the operating theater.  And so I was, uh, assisting with, uh, surgical places.

I:          Um hm.

T:        Um, so our job, of course, was to, um,

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see to the, all the things the doctors needed and quite a lot of, uh, war damage was, uh, broken legs, broken arms, broken whatever and quite a lot of bad things.  And they needed, um, [INAUDIBLE], you know, chips and to stabilize the things.  And, um, one of the things we had to do, that I was to do was, uh, warm salt water to moisten the thing and then the NORMASH put it on and so on and so on.

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I:          Um hm.

T:        And then when it was many, many things to do, we had to assist the doctors and the nurses even though I have been sitting with anesthesia with the [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Yeah.

T:        and things like that to keep the breath going for the soldiers.  And we had soldiers from, uh, any, any soldier came in had wound, and we had some form the North Korea and we had some Chinese, too.  And, um, after the War, we took in civilians.  So that was, uh, another way

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of doing things.

I:          So there was no civilian, uh, patient during the War, right?
T:        No, no, no.

I:          No.

T:        No, we had more than enough of those that came.

I:          Yeah.  Right.

T:        And we just made them ready for transportation to the Danish hospital [INAUDIBLE] down there that was in

I:          Yes.

T:        in, in, Inchon.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And so we just saved their life and sent them on.  And on,

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when the War

ended, I was, by the way, [AT WANSON] with a couple other doctors up to Panmunjom when they signed the treaty.

I:          Um.

T:        And, of course, it came to be effective the day after.  But, uh, we were there.  Not, of course, when the signing where we were in the place, in the city observing, uh, the news.  And after that, we had a very special time when the War was over because, uh, the President at the time, Syngman Rhee,

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he released, uh something like 27,000, uh, prisoners of war.  And, uh, they were all over the place and, uh, I remember especially that, uh, some wanted to go back to their family in the North of Korea, of course, and some wanted to stay.  It was divided a little bit.  But many of those that came to go back to North Korea had been fitted with American fatigues and things and okay.

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You know what they did?  They tore them to pieces so that the people in North could see how bad they had been treated [INAUDIBLE]  So they were on their way to Munson lie, I think it was, yes.

I:          Did you actually see them tore

T:        Yes.

I:          tearing down their clothes?
T:        Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

I:          What were you thinking?

T:        I thought that was very creative thing to do.   Destroy an actual thing since probably a good idea for [INAUDIBLE] in the camp to be cold in the winter.  But, uh,

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that was it.

I:          Um, tell me more about the operation table.

T:        Yeah.

I:          Um, how many patients in the worst case, and how was it to observe all this, you know, painful patients and somebody died there, right?

T:        Yes.

I:          What, tell me more stories about this operation table?

T:        Yes.  When the [INAUDIBLE] when the, when the wounded people came in,

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first I had to go to the, uh, input to get some things off and to get washed a little bit.  And then to go to the x-ray to

I:          Um hm.

T:        But of course, it was, um, very critical situation.  You had to take them without anything because it, it was minutes to die of.  So we had, we had to separate them, uh, select them.  And in the operating table, we had plants like this or like that,

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and with some plastic, uh, padding on top, and that’s it.  Boom.  That went on.  And then we had the cooks and the [SEASHELL] and got oxygen or, and [USED] to having things that was needed.  So, um, one of the things we did was, uh, when we had  some spare time, we went to the central supply to, um, um, help to take the instruments to sterilization because it was very important to

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have them sterilized, all the instruments.

I:          Um.

T:        And we, um, also made [TOP] first [INAUDIBLE] that the nurses to, to take off the [INAUDIBLE] so the surgeons can see where they had to sew.

I:          Um.

T:        Um.  And we made many of them.  I had a good friend there, un.  He was Korean.  He was called Lie something and then we were talking quite a lot, uh.  And during this day, we had also

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started with [INAUDIBLE],  newspaper bulletin, the Norwegian MASH bulletin with news about, uh, who was coming and who was going on leave and who was going home and things like that.

I:          Do you still keep that bulletin?
T:        Uh, I don’t.  But they have in the Norwegian Central Library in Oslo.  The University Library.

I:          I see.

T:        I have chased it because I went once there and saw it.

I:          Ah.

T:        And the interesting thing is that they asked that, um.

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boy Lie if he had a good story, a good, uh, uh, story from South Korea, and he came up with some story that, uh, was, uh, very interesting about some managers and some were still [INAUDIBLE] to the same, and there were some, you know, confusion, and it was, uh, story that we printed and put it in the newspaper.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And so that story, uh, has my name and his name and it is in the newspaper, and it is archived in the Center Archives for the University of Oslo.

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I:          Um.  That’s, uh, University Oslo Library, right?
T:        Yes.

I:          Okay.

T:        It exists.

I:          How many, do you remember the worst day in the inside of the, was it under the tent, right?

T:        Yes, yes.

I:          Was old tent.  And the bottom is soil, right?

T:        Uh, sand.

I:          Sand?

T:        Yes.

I:          Yes.

T:        That was one of the things that made the whole thing, uh, very efficient because

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uh, at least three times every month we took the sand out because it was full of, you know, blood, a lot of, uh

I:          Yeah.

T:        bacterias and things like that.  Out we will go.  And they put new sand.  So we had a hospital with a new floor twice a month.

I:          Twice a month.

T:        Yes.  And that, uh, contributed to the fact that we had hardly any infection, post-infection.  It was not, uh, there.

I:          Great.

T:        And that’s why we wrote the, uh, extra

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medic, the Meritorious Unit sedation that, uh, hospital got because it had taken very good care of hygiene and those things, you know?  And, um, it was given for the, uh, hospital during the War and after the War, too.  As I was doing it after, I got it two times.

I:          Um.

T:        And, um, we’re talking after quite a lot of, uh, normal people, normal

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civilians

I:          Um hm

T:        because they had, um, their wounds and their things, too, accidents and also two things.  So, um, we did that.  But, uh, in, in the first, uh, two or three weeks, one of the Commanders of the military party at NORMASH said we had to take, um, maneuver.  We had to move part of the MASH over to the Northeast, uh, uh, part of, uh, South Korea up to, uh,

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a Japanese [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Um.

T:        And we moved, uh, with trucks and things and installed ourselves there for a week.  And then we came back.  And after that, we had made that maneuver.   Then we went on with, uh, service that came to be very important.  Most likely, um continued and later also in the Scandinavia hospital that

I:          Yes, yes.

T:        you know was established with the help of Swedish,

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Danish and Norwegian, uh, [INAUDIBLE]

I:          That’s a wonderful thing.  That’s now medical center, National Medical Center.

T:        Yes, exactly.  That’s it.

I:          So I think we need to really talk more about this, right?

T:        Um.
I:          And, so that this young generations in Norway should know that the Scandinavian three countries actually contributed to the establishment

T:        Exactly.

I:          of the first real modern medical facility in the Korea.

T:        Yeah, that’s right.  So we were, um,

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many happened to do that, and I have, uh, had, uh, an acquaintance, uh, doctors from Bergen which is the west of Norway

I:          Yeah.

T:        and I spoke to him about  this medical center because, uh, I had been revisit Korea three times.  And, uh, I said to  him that should be something for you to go there and, uh, spend a year or two, and he did.  So he went, and he was, he’s a very good pathologist.

I:          Um.

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T:        Um, and he went there with his, um, his wife, and they spent, I think, 1 ½ years at the medical center.

I:          Uh, after the War, you said that there were many Korean outpatients, right?
T:        Yes.  Yes.
I:          What was the most, most of the disease that they brought in with it, or wounds or injuries?  What kind?

T:        Any injury that had to do with bones.  They

I:          What?

T:        Bones.

I:          [INAUDIBLE]

T:        Arm bones

I:          Bone

T:        Bones, yes because, um, that was usually what they had

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been, uh, destroyed.  And, um, the Chief, um, Medical Officer

I:          Um hm

T:        and Dr. Paus which is the hospital

I:          Paus, yes.

T:        Paus is t he father of Lucie Paus.

I:          Yeah, Lucie.

T:        Yeah, he was, the father

I:          Um

T:        He was there at the time.  And he was very [INAUDIBLE] collecting data from different broken bones and also to places here and there and everything and especially in the spine.

I:          Spine.

T:        Spine, yeah.

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And he used that once again later to write his doctor’s degree.

I:          Yeah.

T:        So he got his doctor [INAUDIBLE] degree with, uh, that material that he had collected, mainly from, uh, from, uh, NORMASH, also something from Oslo [INAUDIBLE] that he used with it and systematics and took his doctor’s degree.

I:          Um.

T:        So we had also took things for, uh,

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the most, um, [INAUDIBLE] but his special was we got some woman in, and she was very much pregnant

I:          Who?

T:        Very much pregnant.

I:          Who?

T:        [INAUDIBLE]

I:          You mean the Korean Woman?

T:        Yeah.  Korean woman.

I:          Yeah, yeah.

T:        Really a Korean woman.

I:          Yeah

T:        vey much and, um, she had to have a Cesarean, you know, uh, cutting like that.  And, um, she had twins.  So I have been seeing a Cesarean operation, [INAUDIBLE]

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I:          Yeah.

T:        and twins.

I:          Ha.

T:        Two girls I think it was.

I:          Wow.

T:        So

I:          Must be a celebration there.

T:        Yeah, it was

I:          Everybody was happy.

T:        Yes, everybody happy.  Not at least the twins I’m sure was very happy.  I think so.

I:          They were lucky actually, right?
T:        Yes, I think so.

I:          Yes.

T:        So we had quite a lot of experience with those different people around.

I:          Hm.

T:        And then when it came to be more quiet,

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we went, uh, even for the tour around to [INAUDIBLE] to meet the Swedish people.

I:          Ah ha.

T:        They were there with, uh, unit.  But that, of course, was, um, it was, uh, field hospital you can say, but tit was not mobile.  It was in a house.  They could not move.  They had everything in one place, and it was right across

I:          Um hm.

T:        because Sweden was very neutral.  So they could not say that the Swedish had a MASH, Mobile Surgical Army, no

I:          No.

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T:        It was not mobile, and it was not [INAUDIBLE]  It was surgical, but that was it.

I:          Red Cross, right?
T:        Yes, Red Cross.

I:          So at the time, did you belong to the American 8^th Army?

T:        Yes.

I:          Eighth Army and what is the lower unit?

T:        Yes,

I:          Twenty-fourth Division or what was it, Infantry?  What was it?

T:        It was established within the [INAUDIBLE] starting unit had to carry all the paperwork, and next door was, uh, technical unit, Engineering.

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Engineering.  They had tricks and they had all sorts of things.

I:          Um.

T:        And that, I have to tell you, it came, um, two or three days with enormous amount of rain, flooding, and we had a bridge going across the little river

I:          Um huh.

T:        and that, uh, flooding, took the bridge and off and away with that.  So that disappeared.

I:          Um.

T:        But across the American unit came with, uh, [INAUDIBLE] and things and put up a new bridge, uh, in two or three days.

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I:          Wow.

T:        Very efficient.

I:          Very.  Um,

T:        It was, uh, very rainy season.

I:          What was the most difficult thing?  If I asked you to just say one thing out of your whole service in Korea, what really bothers you most or what was the most difficult thing?  It can be weather.  It can be, uh, dealing with people dying.  What, what was I t?

T:        Um, difficult to say because

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they did not die in, uh, in our place.  But, uh, I watched post-operative, it was, they had a special man from, uh, England on the Scottish Brigade were there.

I:          Hm.

T:        And we kept him alive for a long time.  And I spoke to him also

I:          Um.

T:        and he, I don’t remember the name.  But, uh, in, in the end he died.  And we were all very sad.  That was very sad I must say.

I:          Um.

T:        That made a great impression I would say.

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I:          Were you able to write  back to your family?

T:        Yes, we could write letters, yes.

I:          Yeah.  So do you still keep that letter?

T:        Um, I don’t think we have any left.

I:          Okay.

T:        My parents are dead some time ago of course.

I:          Um.  You been to Seoul City, right?

T:        Yes.

I:          And you been to several area in Korea, right?

T:        Yes.

I:          And at the time, how was it, the situation there, people, living conditions,

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cities.  How was it?  Give me the detailed descript ion of what you saw in 1952 and ’53.

T:        Yes, we saw that it was [INAUDIBLE] quite a lot [INAUDIBLE] at that time.  Quite a lot of houses that were not exactly very solid, you know.  Many houses were built up, uh, either from rubbles that they had or new things that were put together very fast and, you know, when you do things

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very, very fast, it’s not exactly so solid as this old house here

I:          Right.

T:        at this very home.

I:          Yeah.

T:        So, um, yes, yes, yes.  We had, uh, quite a lot of, uh, things around, and we were always went to the PX, of course.  The PX to shop some things.  And we, we sols some cigarettes to people around and so on and so on.

I:          Um hm.

T:        Uh, I wanted to collect some American dollars because I wanted to use the dollars to

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study medicine in Germany.

I:          Ah.

T:        Yes in, uh, in, uh, [Gottingen].

I:          [Gottingen].

T:        Yes.

I:          Um.

T:        When I came home, it was restriction on currency, Norwegian currency, we had very little currency.  We were very poor after the War.  And, um, we had a limit of, uh, some, three, four hundred krones.  You couldn’t stay a month in Germany for that amount.

I:          Um.

T:        Unless you had the energy to go somewhere, and did shipping and have

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found a little money, you could not manage.

I:          Um.

T:        That’s why I started again with my education in Science.

I:          Science.

T:        Science.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And I have worked lately  in life with, uh, medical things that I have been work with, uh, big, uh, pharmaceutical companies all over the world.

I:          Hm.

T:        for thirty years.

I:          Have you been back to Korea?

T:        Yes.

I:          When?

T:        The first time in

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’93 I think  it was.

I:          Nineteen?

T:        Nineteen ninety-three.

I:          Uh huh.

T:        And then in 2003.

I:          Oh.

T:        And then an extra t rip in 2014.  That was my last trip.

I:          And you said that you arrived in the  middle of May, 1953

T:        Yes.

I:          and when did you leave Korea at the time?

T:        I left, uh, 2010, of December I think, 10, 12^th of December.

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I:          Of ’54?

T:        No, no, no.  Of ’53.

I:          Oh.  So you were there for five months?
T:        yes.

I:          That’s it?

T:        Yeah.

I:          Why, why was it so short?

T:        Everybody had their five or six months.  It was one period and, a year was divided in two periods

I:          Ah.  So only six months.

T:        Six months.
I:          I see.

T:        Or 5 ½ or 6 ½.

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It depended a little bit on, uh, uh, airspace and well, many things.  So many people wanted to go over to home and, through Japan and then start to San Francisco, crossing the States and going back to Norway.

I:          Of course.

T:        I did not do that.  I went all the way over t he Far East.  Mike Finn and myself, we went over the Far East for two months.

I:          Oh.

T:        And then 10 days in Japan, in Okinawa,

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[INAUDIBLE] Singapore, Bangkok and Singapore yes, uh.  And then we spent three weeks in India and so we came to [INAUDIBLE] and we came to, uh, [KARRIADOR] and we came to Istanbul and we, that was for two months.

I:          By, by your private money?

T:        No.  The, the, the return trip was paid by the Norwegian state.

I:          So that was your return trip route

T:        Yes.  So that we could choose

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where we wanted to go.

I:          Wow.  That’s, uh, free, free global trip.

T:        Yes.  But of course, I did not pay.  I was staying hotels or food.  That we had to pay ourselves.

I:          You mean for hotel and food?

T:        That we paid ourselves.

I:          I see.

T:        That, that, that trip and, except the flight and everything was, uh, paid for.

I:          What a trip.

T:        Yes.  Well, most spectacular was the trip to Korea.

I:          Ah.

T:        That was unique because that was the first ever airplane

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that crossed the North Pole.

I:          Ah.

T:        So we went across the North Pole to, to Greenland where we had, um, uh, short lunch at the American base in Thule

I:          Um.

T:        It was a very, very important base with a lot of equipment and things.  Then we watching the Russians, of course.  And, uh, we had just lunch there, and then we were shipped of to Anchorage, Alaska where

0:28:00

we stayed overnight.  And then we went, uh, to one of the Aleut Islands called [SHIMYA], [SHIMYA] Island up in the Aleuts

I:          Yeah

T:        where we had another, uh, fueling of gasoline and some more food, and then we went to, uh, the big airport in, in Tokyo.  So in the middle of the night, we were transferred with, uh, trucks to another airport, and we went straight to the, with the airplane and a big [INAUDIBLE] to, uh, K14.  That was

0:28:30

the South Korean airfield.  So we landed there the day after.

I:          Um.  So tell me about [INAUDIBLE] from Korea that you saw.  You saw Korea from 1953, okay?  And then you went back to Korea three times, but when the last time was 2014.

T:        Yes.

I:          Please explain, give me detailed description of Korea in ’53 and 2014.

0:29:00

T:        Well, that was a big leap.  Uh, and especially when you can see the, the enormous amount of tall buildings and things.  I stayed at the Lotte Hotel which is like a big, like a big village, uh, was like a city.

I:          Um.

T:        Very big.  And we had, um, site seeing around, seeing the different sites and they have been enormous amount of, uh, buildings.

0:29:30

Of course, the, the amount of people also living there has increased quite, and we saw quite a lot of nice buildings and I think many people, uh, are rather well balanced.  That time was like.  But I had a very, very good experience in the airport.  You know, the airport we had to go to in Seoul and, and then it’s

0:30:00

train and all sorts of things and I had a Danish with me and he was little bit older and a little bit

I:          Um.

T:        So I had to help him  to come to his airplane.  Otherwise, he would have stayed there forever.  Um, but on the way up to the air, aircraft, uh, we came in our suitcase, Swedish friend of mine, and we were there.  And two young business people from South Korea came to us and said thank you for what you’re doing for us.  That was very moving.

I:          Um.

0:30:30

T:        I have never forgotten that.

I:          Um.  So when you see the Seoul City 2014, were you able, I mean, did, did you believe your eyes to see the real difference?

T:        Well, I had seem in between a little bit and so I saw it was growing, growing.  They did have changed enormously than, than last six, seven years I’m sure.  So it was shooting up quite, quite a site.

I:          You know now the Korean economy

0:31:00

in the world.  It’s, uh, do you know that it’s 11^th largest economy in the world?

T:        Um hm.

I:          Korea?  Do you know that?

T:        No, I’m not so sure about that.

I:          Yes.  South Korean economy now 11^th largest.  Number 11.

T:        Oh yes, yes, yes, yes.  I, [STAMMERS] yes, that I know.

I:          But when you, when you left Korea in 1953, had you ever thought that Korea would become 11^th largest economy in the world?

0:31:30

T:        No, I think quite a few people wouldn’t have believed that.  But, um, some people [INAUDIBLE] very fast growing economy and growing technical capacity.  Not only in, uh, Norway and, um, shipping building and also [TWO] things.  Uh, the Norwegian ship, [INAUDIBLE] quite a lot of buildings of shapes in South Korea.

I:          Yeah, yeah.

T:        But help, I’m sure.

I:          Yeah.

T:        And, um,

0:32:00

and then, then we had also been, uh, buying quite a lot of things so the, make good ships and all those electronic things that have been really successful, really clever people doing this work.  So it has been a good exchange and one could see that it was growing, uh,

I:          Yeah.

T:        Anyhow, I have been  a subscriber to, um, The Economist

I:          Yeah.

T:        for, um, 30 years or something.

0:32:30

And when you read that, uh, uh, Economist once a week for 30 years, then you know only to read the things are growing around.

I:          Right. So you must be really knowledgeable about South Korean economy, right?

T:        Yes.  We know what to look what, um, what has happened and how things are going.  And of course, um, it’s always competition not to, at least not, uh, uh,

0:33:00

with Chinese things.  And then, of course, you have, uh, this problem  of, uh, earth, maintaining earth minerals that is used for microchips, you know, [INAUDIBLE]  Those very seldom found minerals that the Chinese had been digging quite a lot of  it in, in, Africa.

I:          Yeah.

T:        But I hear now that, um, they have problem getting things, uh, also in the North, and they say that we have to start digging in the North

0:33:30

to get some ourselves because they ran off and they don’t have enough.  And they cannot buy and so they have a, they have a, [INAUDIBLE] trouble.

I:          So does, uh, Norway have a rare earth here?

T:        Yes.  We have some.

I:          Ah.

T:        Yeah.

I:          Good to know.

T:        And we have something else, too.  We have an enormous field in [TENAWANEK] which is  South of Oslo

0:34:00

of something called [TORIUM]

I:          Um.

T:        And [TORIUM[ is one of the last parts of the nuclear reactor system.  And then [HOLDEBUM] for that part of, and, uh, it is possible to make a fusion reaction with [TORIUM].  It’s just needed quite a lot of research to make it happen.

I:          I see.  I see.

T:        And I think people should take their time and the money to develop this because

0:34:30

that would be partly, a good way to the green evolution to save our poor planet which is getting, um, quite poor because it’s too many people and not, not, not [INAUDIBLE] and it’s going to be too much people and too little food.  And then you have epidemics.  You have a War.  You have all sorts of things.  So I think that, um, we could come to built that.

I:          Yes.

T:        And then we need, uh, specialists, and we need people that

0:35:00

can help us to do that.  And I would say that one could then do some good cooperations with the South Korean [ONCOLOGISTS] also.  I have some, uh, quite a lot of information, political friends and from the old time.  I even started a party in this country.

I:          What party?

T:        And that is, uh, [INAUDIBLE] party.  It’s a progressive party.

I:          Huh.

T:        And that had,

0:35:30

at the time, more than 20% of votes for the National Assembly.  Now it has a, like parties already it’s going up and down, up and down.

I:          Right.

T:        Now it’s just slipped right down.  But it’s going up again.  And then, they are all for free, communication and free, um, trained you might say.

I:          Could you repeat the name of the party you created?
T:        Yes.

I:          What is the name of it?  Could you spell it?

0:36:00

T:        Uh, Famscates Party.

I:          What is it?  F

T:        F – R -M

I:          F what?

T:        F-R-M-S-O-P-E

I:          You have to write it again to me.  And so you, you founded this political party?

T:        Not alone but with the four or five others.

I:          When was it?

T:        I knew that was made in a meeting

0:36:30

in the big, uh, big cinema, in Oslo.  And that was in ’50, no, no, no, not ’50, ’73.

I:          Nineteen seventy-three.

T:        Yes, yes, yes.

I:          Wow.  You did, created the

T:        Yes.

I:          the political party

T:        Yes.

I:          And it’s a right wing?

T:        Yes.  It’s on the right side, yes.

I:          Okay.

T:        Yes.  And, um, I went to the, to the department to have adventures then.

0:37:00

And it had a very long name.

I:          Um.

T:        I can tell you.  But, uh, of course I cannot spell it.  [INAUDIBLE] Long title.  Then the people in the, in the department said we cannot register that.  The title is too long, and I said no, you have to read the log because it says that if you register a new party and resembles another party

0:37:30

so it can be confusion between one name and another, then you can say no, you cannot do that.  But I said the longer and more creative the things are, the less [INAUDIBLE] resembles anything from before.  So  we wrote the [INAUDIBLE] on it, and we had four people in five months, we got four people in the National Assembly.

I:          Wow.

T:        And at the most, we have had, um, more than 20, 30.

I:          Wow.

T:        Oh yes.  And that is a part of the government now.

0:38:00

That ‘s part  of the government.

I:          So you must be famous man here.

T:        Um, when I want to be, yes, I can go to the party meetings.

I:          So are you  now retired from the party?

T:        No, I’m not really affective but I have come to House Assembly eight.  So I am capable.  But the Finance Minister, Siv Jensen, has the same name as me, not family.  She is, uh, Chairman of the party now.  And she’s the Finance Minister of Norway.

0:38:30

I:          What’s the name?

T:        Siv Jensen.

I:          Ah. Siv Jensen.

T:        Siv Jensen.  S for Siv.

I:          Um hm.  And wow.  So that’s very interesting.  Then after you come back from Korea, Korean War, you worked in the party.

T:        I, um, uh, contributed to the student politics.  So I came to be, uh, Chairman of the Conservative Students Association for Norway.

0:39:00

I:          Wow.

T:        And that was in 1955.

I:          Fifty-five.

T:        Yes.  And I was part of the Counsel for the Minister of Oslo and the year after ’56.  So

I:          So did you run for election?

T:        Yes.

I:          You’ve been elected how many times?

0:39:30

T:        Uh, in, in, this Student, uh, I was elected, uh, three times.

I:          And then in the party.

T:        And then later when we created the party in the 70’s, then I already been married and I had been working in the pharmaceutical industry, and I had many years that I could not do very much politics.  After all that had been married now for 61 years.

I:          Why were you in, why did you work to create, to help this, uh, student politics?

0:40:00

Why?  What was the reason that you committed yourself?

T:        Yes, I thought that, um, it was too much, um, planned economy from the Labor parties and the leftist.  But of course you can say that planned economy can’t be very good.  But  if you make a bad plan and you stick to it, it goes really bad.  And this, absolutely not a good idea.

I:          Um.

T:        Uh, and I saw that, the planned economy, and that was, uh,

0:40:30

done wrong by a neighbor party.  It was not good.  So I thought it had to be changed to the more conservative.  And it, it was not bad until it was set up more less in the middle of both things.

I:          So that’s quite a transformation from your, uh, paramedic, Science major to politics, especially for conservative right wing.

T:        Yes.

I:          Wow.  What a transformation.

T:        Well, I wanted to do many things at the same time.

0:41:00

I:          And then you worked in the, uh, pharmaceutical companies.

T:        Yes, yes, yes.

I:          Ah.

T:        But before that, I had quite a lot of jobs as a sort of, uh, freelance, uh, realm.  And, but I also took, um, [INAUDIBLE] that the Norwegian Headquarters.  I sat as a Staff Officer for a year or so at, uh, [INAUDIBLE] in, uh, Oslo here.  So I was dealing with, um, [INAUDIBLE] and technical parts of, uh, papers, paperwork there.

0:41:30

So I would send money for my studies.  So I went to my office time in, uh, military headquarters to my lab, laboratory in white coat in, in the [INAUDIBLE] the same day.  So I did those two things at the same time.

I:          What a life, huh:

T:        Nah, it came to be rather hectic and, after all, we have five children.

I:          Hm.  Five children.

T:        Five children,

I:          Any of them teaching in school.?

T:        Um,

0:42:00

well, they have developed different.  One of them, uh, assisted, uh, nurse and specialized in Psychiatry.  And the youngest daughter is a medical doctor.

I:          Ah ha.
T:        and has a doctorate degree.

I:          Very good.

T:        Yes.

I:          So, um, Lucie

T:        Yes.,

I:          been working with the Labor Party, right?

T:        Yes, yes, yes.

I:          Yeah.  So you, you are friend to each other.

T:        Yes because the difference between the Labor Party nowadays

I:          Yeah

0:42:30

T:        uh, and uh, Conservative nowadays, they have approached each other.  So the difference is not very much.

I:          Not too much.

T:        Not too much.

I:          Good.

T:        And that’s why it has come to be quite a lot of small parties around that have special interests.

I:          Hm.

T:        And they, of course, get two or three, um, members to the National Assembly.  But when the big parties are shrinking, then the small parties, even if it’s just [INAUDIBLE] can get an enormous interest which

0:43:00

you see

I:          Right, yes.

T:        in the big system in England and

I:          Exactly, exactly.

T:        Just one or two can poof, can makes, uh, upset the apple cart as they say in the States.

I:          So that’s the irony, that majority  party couldn’t get the majority seat.

T:        No.

I:          So only few people can actually flip around.

T:        Yes.  That’s sometimes just one.

I:          That’s a ridiculous actually.

T:        Yes it is.  But, uh, and that is what, uh, happens with, uh, democracy.

I:          Uh huh.

0:43:30

T:        And, I have to say Winston Churchill there, he said democracy is a frightful system.  But it’s the, it’s the best we have.  So what can you do?

I:          Yeah.  So tell me about your life as a Korean War veteran in NORMASH unit.  You never thought that you could become Korea, Korean War veteran.  Now you’ve been back to Korea three times,

0:44:00

T:        Yes.

I:          What is it?  What is the thing, how you can put this into a perspective, and what is the importance of your life as a Korean War veteran, and what is the importance, historical importance, of the Korean War to you?

T:        Well, uh, it has a long line backwards, uh, actually because, um, you know the, the intervention in Korea was made by the General Secretary  of the United Nations.  And he was Norwegian, Trygve Lie.

0:44:30

He has the same [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Ah.

T:        Trygve, Trygve Lie.

I:          Ah ha.

T:        Yeah.  And he managed to, uh, get a unanimous vote on the intervention because if that hadn’t been done, then America would have gone alone, alone.  And that would have been a different story.  But, of course, he came in and suggested that, uh, Security, uh, Council

I:          Um hm.

T:        And they vetoed, they

0:45:00

did not veto it because the Russians had, um,

I:          Right.

T:        did not, um, did not appear.  So they had, um, boycotted the meeting.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And I can tell you that was the last time I boycotted the Security Council meeting because they got that motion, uh, unanimous.  So the motion stood and, uh, Trygve Lie said we will make this a United Nation action, not make it entirely [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Yes.

0:45:30

T:        America is a big part of it.  But, uh, it was the United Nations.

I:          Absolutely.

T:        So he did that.

I:          So

T:        So we, um, we thought that was a clever  thing to do.  And I sort  of, I followed the political and historic, uh, line you might say for many, many years I have been interested in, uh, history and politics for many, many years.

I:          Um.

T:        But you can’t have been in many interests and, um, it, it’s just one of those things.

0:46:00

I have also been interested languages for instance.  But my wife is Spanish.

I:          Ah.

T:        A lot of Spanish which she’s got along so [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Catalonia.

T:        [INAUDIBLE]
I:          Yeah.

T:        So when we met in Paris some time, we, uh, spoke English for quite some years and, uh, I knew French and I knew German, of course.  But, um, so

0:46:30

that has made it more difficult to, for many coming here and there.  But, uh, I usually have managed to speak the language when I’m in the country.

I:          Um.

T:        whether it is Germany or France or Spain or England or whatever.,

I:          Um.

T:        That makes it more interesting speaking to people.  It’s, uh, very, very good idea.  I do not think my hometown might have some people that I meet in, uh, when I go swimming in the public bath

I:          Um.

T:        two or three times a week,

0:47:00

and I meet some of them, and we discuss politics and things, you know, interesting things, we follow up  with  different  things.

I:          Very interesting.

T:        So it’s good to keep, uh, gray cells as a

I:          Yes

T:        [INAUDIBLE] always say, uh, you keep on working, that’s not too bad.

I:          What do you think is the historical importance of Korean War?

T:        Well, the most important thing is that

0:47:30

they managed to stop the, the surge from the North with, uh, combinations [SEARCH] and with idea that everybody is supposed to be the same as we always say that, um.

I:          Yeah.  The Vietnam War, in the Vietnam War, communism had a victory.

T:        Yes.

I:          Right?
T:        Yes.

I:          But in Korea, we deterred that, right?

T:        Yes.
I:          Yeah.

T:        Managed to stop it.

I:          Um hm.

0:48:00

T:        Now, of course, Communists are Communists, uh, in the 1920’s when Stalin and the people went around and wounded quite a lot of people

I:          Right.
T:        um, but also the movements are changing with the time.  So Communists nowadays is not exactly the same as it was, uh, 30, 50, 60 years ago.  It was different.  So it has sort of come to be around and not so [INAUDIBLE] good.

0:48:30

So I must say that, um, I, my motive has always been that, uh, I think people should be able to take care of themselves.
I:          Yeah.

T:        Uh, instead of leaving that to the State.  In the end, uh, you cannot decide anything, and that, I think, is a bad idea.  I realize that in some people that needs help, and we are willing to help the people that needs help.  It’s not fair but to, to press people down that’s where supposed to be, be much better.

0:49:00

It’s not a good idea.  I say that to the leftist people now.  We had an election, you know.  Perhaps we had a, a local election

I:          Yeah.

T:        a few days ago

I:          Yeah

T:        I said to one of the left people that you [INAUDIBLE] are half Communist.  You want everybody to have  the same, to be the same.

I:          Um h m.

T:        But, I said, uh, and you want to give them many things.  But I said, but where are you going to get the money to pay for that I said?

I:          Right.

T:        You have to be paid from somewhere.

I:          Yeah.

0:49:30

T:        I don’t know everything.  And besides, I said that, uh, what happens, he said, when everybody’s, uh, very much, uh, the same, then you  always have some super tops that come this side everything without money, without anything.  They can just order things too, whatever they want.

I:          But you have a lot of  oil here.  Norway is, uh, blessed.  In 19, only late 1960’s, you find oil, right?
T:        Yes, yes.

I:          So you have a lot of money here.

0:50:00

T:        Yes.  Very much.  Now it [INAUDIBLE] being on the South, uh, [INAUDIBLE], uh, or in installations [INAUDIBLE]  Now the place went up to, it, it’s approaching $17 per matter now and going further up I think.

I:          Yeah.

T:        So, for being rich [INAUDIBLE] I think to me even more rich.  And then we had some trouble, what do we do with all the money?

I:          I can spend it for you.

T:        Yes, it’s always someone

0:50:30

wants to do that.

I:          Right.
T:        At that time, we are approaching, um, something like, uh, 10,000, uh, billion, uh, Krone in, uh, oil fund as it’s called

I:          Yeah.

T:        And that is the biggest in the world.

I:          Biggest in the  world.  Yes, I know that.

T:        We are small country, but we have the biggest fund.  So we are very lucky with that thing.

I:          And you are blessed with the nature here.  You have a sea

0:51:00

right there, but the fjord.

T:        Yes.

I:          I am in love with it.  I watched fightings.

T:        Yes, yes.  Oh yes, yes, yes.  That’s very fun thing, and you see the actual picture from the different places.

I:          Yeah.

T:        That[INAUDIBLE] us old people are standing there where you can [GESTURE]  Yes.

I:          You are the, this country’s beautiful.  I am very impressed.  And I want to come back for, you know, the, the

0:51:30

travel all around the North

T:        Yes, yes going to, up to

I:          by the car.

T:        Yes.

I:          Yeah.

T:        And you see this little bear there?

I:          Uh huh.

T:        That is a sign that I am member of the, uh, uh, Norwegian Polar Bear Association..

I:          Polar bear, yes, yes.

T:        because I have been to the North Point.

I:          Um.  Very good.

T:        So, so many have spare time and, that I do, sometimes also.  Then I, um,

0:52:00

uh, read, uh, I even have a leftist newspaper to see what they say and how they can mean those things.  But they have people that write, so they are clever journalists and newspaper people. Um, so that is, uh, interesting.  But, um, I also use some time to play the piano.

I:          Wow.

T:        I play the piano since ’42.

I:          Wow.  Must be good.

0:52:30

T:        Yes.  Now I, I play straight from the [PARTY, TOO] because that is like, uh, cross, person when you have to concentrate and you have to see.

I:          Right.

T:        where, and I had some trouble because I have a disease that called Dupuytren’s Contracture when, um, fingers are like that.  And I had an operation so it came to  be better.  And then I had this and then was operated.  So now I can play Mozart and

0:53:00

Beethoven and all the  people again.

I:          So your favorite piece is Beethoven?
T:        Yes, yes, yes.

I:          What is, the Sonata, piano Sonata?
T:        Yes, yes. I

I:          What is it?
T:        I have two, 32 of them, all of them.

I:          And you can play it?
T:        All of them.

I:          Wow.

T:        And all the Mozart one and the Greek people and

I:          Even Mozart?

T:        Uh, yes. Absolutely all.

I:          Some day I want to watch you play.

T:        Yes.  It’s quite alright.  No, that is, uh, this is, uh, gymnastics for the brain.

I:          Yes.

0:53:30

That’s right.

T:        Yes.  It’s amusing you have, uh, chords and things.  And I have two stacks of music, one enormous one, classic

I:          Um.

T:       and I have quite a collection of old Russian composers.

I:          Uh huh.

T:        Yeah.  [INAUDIBLE- Russian composers]

I           Tchaikovsky.

T:        Tchaikovsky and all those and, of  course, all the others, the German ones and so on.  And then on the other hand I have big stack of modern jazz.

I:          What?

0:54:00

T:        Jazz.

I:          Oh, jazz.

T:        Yes, yes.

I:          I ‘m actually going to, uh, opera house the day after tomorrow

T:        Yes, yes.

I:          for ballet.

T:        Yes, yes, yes.

I:          Yeah.  I’m going there.  I have my ticket.

T:        Yes, yes, yes, yes.  I have, uh, all set, yes.

I:          Membership?

T:        No.  I have this

I:          Ha, what

T:        It’s a invitation and I have said yes.  So I’m coming.

I:          To where?

T:        To the opera house, to the guest house to the

I:          Ballet?

T:        Yeah.

I:          You going there?

0:54:30

T:        Yeah.  I will come there.

I:          Ha.  I will see you there then.

T:        Yes.  Now the one thing I forgot.  When I went last time to opening at Freedom House, you know, uh, in 2014,

I:          Uh huh,

T:        I met some type that gave me this

I:          Sit there, sit there, yes, sit, sit.

T:        And he was a [INAUDIBLE] chairman or something, I don’t know.

I:          Oh.

T:        Important man I think.

I:          Okay.

0:55:00

T:        So I spoke to, to him at length when we opened up, uh, Freedom, [INAUDIBLE]

I:          In, in Norway?

T:        No, no, no, in, in Seoul.

I:          In Seoul.

T:        Yes, yes, yes.  It was in 2015.

I:          Can I take a picture of it?

T:        Yes, yes.  You can keep it for that, but I don’t understand it.

I:          Okay.
T:        That’s a memento.  You see, I had this coat on, and I had it in my pocket.  So I found it today, and I thought I’d take it along so you can have it if you want.

I:          Okay.  Thank you.

0:55:30

T:        Okay.

I:          And tell me about this.  Is there any impact of, uh, in your life as a Korean War experience?  Does, have, uh, shaped some of your life or what is the impact of the Korean War service in your  life?

T:        Well, it gives, um, a good impression on the hint towards,

0:56:00

uh, creativity.  That, I think, is most important thing, that you have to create whether you want to play something or you create something, and that has given, uh, a good, uh, push in the right  direction.

I:          Hm.

T:        And I think I can owe some of it to my service, uh, in, in Korea.

I:          Um.

T:        Absolutely.

I:          Um.

T:        All in all, I have had, uh, good stint of services in, uh, military forces also, uh, from Germany

0:56:30

also in the

I:          Um hm.

T:        in the Brigade there an so on, yes.

I:          Um, Norway was under the occupation of Germany.

Um, I mean South Korea was, I mean, the Korea was under the occupation of Japan.

T:        Yes.

I:          What do you think, is there any similarities or differences?  What do you think about that?

T:        Uh, I think it must be some difference because, um, the Germans, you know, they have [INAUDIBLE]

I:          [INAUDIBLE]

0:57:00

T:        Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] and they wanted, uh, somethings and, and, um, they actually killed off many Jews.

I:          Jews, yes.

T:        And they took from Norway Jews and sent them to Auschwitz.  Uh, when I have been a couple of times and seen Auschwitz.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And, uh, they killed off millions there.  And, uh, but otherwise,

0:57:30

they, when it comes to the occupation of Norway, they were very mild actually in Norway because they had a theory in that man’s caboose up  in his hear.

I:          Hm

T:        that, uh, the Nordic on, Nordic race, that was [GESTURES]  So we were just, uh, very soft [INAUDIBLE]  They were much tougher in [INAUDIBLE], in Holland

I:          Um hm

T:        and in France and other places, much tougher.

0:58:00

When it comes to the Japanese, then I have a straight impression that they simply consider themselves to be better and stronger, and they had t hose Shogun people and so on.  And it was a sort of a war, uh, with everything.  [INAUDIBLE] I would say.

I:          Um hm.

T:        And then they treated others as if they were soldier slaves as they did in America when they took, uh, Africans back to those plantations

0:58:30

in the South.  And so they were not people.  They were sort of, sort of

I:          Animal.

T:        of animals sort of, yeah.  And then, and that, and they, uh, did not only in Korea but, uh, during the expanse in the War.  They were raping people and killing people and taking things and, and they had everything

I:          Self [INAUDIBLE]  China.

T:        Yeah.  Exactly.

I:          Yeah.

0:59:00

T:        So the had, uh, it’s a different way of doing things.  But basically, uh,  this, um, more less the same.

I:          More less the same.  Except the fact that German government came out and say sincerely made a apology

T:        Yes.

I:          But Japan never did it.

T :       No.

I:          No.

T:        They were supposed to.  But, um, the man, [INAUDIBLE] they don’t do it.

I:          Um.  Okay.  Um, next year will by the 70th

0:59:30

anniversary of the breakout of the Korean War.

T:        Yes.

I:          It’s more like a ridiculous.  Think about it.  Korean War finished as, with a cease fire in 1953 and never been replaced with a Peace Treaty yet.

T:        No.

I:          It’s, it’s ridiculous.
T:        And it’s absolutely ridiculous.

I:          And so we have to commemorate 70^th anniversary of the Korean War

T:        Um.

I:          without Peace Treaty next year.  What  is your message to the Korean people and Korean government?

1:00:00

T:        Well, I must say that, uh, they really stand better in the future, and they will always take some time.  It has taken enormous time.  But I think one way of trying to do something is to make the North some, a little bit, um, uh, dependent on the South friends with some roads, some railroads, some whatever.  And then little by little when they see that, um,

1:00:30

they are not lasting in the South, they are helping us and, um, well, uh, it’s one of the ways to do things.  But it is a long time basis I’m afraid.

I:          I think that’s very reasonable.
T:        It’s an [INAUDIBLE] that, um, must be more less corrected.
I:          Um hm.

T:        I, I think, uh, your President, I have met him.

I:          Yeah.

T:        He come on the stage with it, uh.  Met him and his wife and we had a steak dinner in [INAUDIBLE] and

1:01:00

also took things.  So

I:          Um,  I forgot the question.  Oh.  Is there any other particular stories that you want to share with us about, uh, medical operation in the NORMASH unit, anything that you didn’t say to me yet?

T:        Uh, well, uh, I can tell you

1:01:30

one story and that, uh, was very impressive.  It was, um, I think it was [INAUDIBLE] I think so.  Must not.  But he had been part of a, uh, gun crew, you know, the way

I:          Yeah.

T:        feeding, uh, uh, artillery

I:          Ammunition

T:        boom and ammunition on boom and, and then the whole gun got warm and exploded, boom

I:          Oh.

T:        And it was a team of eight  for a big gun like that.

I:          Uh huh.

1:02:00

T:        And just one of them was alive when the medics came.  And, uh, he had, uh, one hand like that another like that and wound here and one here and off with everything, and he was bleeding to death.  But, uh, the men, the, the, the paramedic Sergeant was a very tough guy.  You know what he did?  He took a flame thrower and burned it off.

I:          Uh huh.

T:        [NOISES] and that saved his life.

I:          Wow.

1:02:30

T:        So when he came to us, we saved the rest of his leg.  And he came back to the States.  He was from the States, yes.  And he sent a picture that he had got artificial legs and things, and he was dancing.  So he had, uh, had a complete rest, uh, restitution himself to function almost normal.

I:          Do you, do you remember  his name?

T:        No, that I don’t.

I:          But you saw him?

T:        Yes.

1:03:00

I saw him.

I:          Ah.

T:        Yes.  I was there when they treated him in the operating theater, yes.  That was an extreme case, of course.

I:          What were you thinking when you saw him without two hands, without two legs?  What were you thinking?
T:        I thought  that this one here, um, bad case.  He would die.  But they gave him massive transfusions of blood and of serum and those two things so that

1:03:30

that kept the circulation going

I:          Um hm.

T:        and, of course, they operated and fixed everything and he was in post-operative a couple of weeks, and then they could be sent back to the States.

I:          Um.

T:        So that was an extreme case I would say.

I:          Um.  But must  been a lot of those kind of stories that you, during your service there, right ?

T:        Um.

I:          So many people came.

T:        Um.

1:04:00

I:          wounded.

T:        Yes, many, many, many.

I:          Was NORMASH medical team good, successful?  What do you think?

T:        Yes, they were many successful actually.  And, um, we had the people from Turkey to people from Ethiopia, people from Columbia, from all over the place.  So I met actually on  my visit,  uh, yes.  Now, in 2014, uh, a Colonel might have been

1:04:30

a soldier in Korean War also.

I:          Um.
T:        at the same time as I was there.  And he came from the revisit.  And, um, he was very happy to find me because, um, his English was not exactly very good, uh, and he didn’t understand so much because most of the things were done on, in English.  But he, of course, being from, uh, Columbia, they speak Spanish.  They are Spanish speaking.

I:          Yeah.  Uh huh.

T:        And, uh, I had been speaking

1:05:00

Spanish for some, uh, 50 years, I could translate from English to Spanish so he could understand.  And when he wanted to ask something, I translated from Spanish to English to the people he wanted to talk to.  So I was sort of a, um, translator.

I:          Um.

T:        from Spanish to English and vice versa.

I:          Um.

T:        Um.  So I got a card from him also.  He lives in Bogota, the Capital.

1:05:30

I:          Another story.

T:        Well, it was.

I:          Do you still remember all those scenes?
T:        Um, many.  Uh, I have a rather good memory.

I:          Um.

T:        Uh, especially those things that are far away.  Then the other things that something can go from one room to another and into the kitchen, and as I, why did I go to the kitchen?

1:06:00

I have forgotten what, [INAUDIBLE]  So that’s short -time memory

I:          Exactly.

T:        be the age that, uh, that’s, uh, faltered a little bit.

I:          Hm.

T:        But usually it’s not, uh, very bothersome, no, no, no.  Always not.

I:          I think there is a some sort of spirit of humanitarian aids and humanitarian kind of spirts here in Norway.  Is that right?

T:        Yes, yes, absolutely.

I:          Where does it come from?

T:        I think it comes from the old times when people

1:06:30

were very much poorer than they are now and, uh, the old times t hey had to help each other.

I:          Um hm.

T:        So with, uh, gold, diamonds we have, especially North, people have to help each other and, uh, the community feeling of helping each other

I:          Um.

T:        is definitely, um, function of, uh, you might say  you see how grumpy

I:          Um.

T:        since the country is where it is.

1:07:00

And I think that, uh, gives, uh, strong impression of us, people so, they are supposed to help each other, and they do.  And they have moved that out to the world.  So if you compare the 5.5 million we are here

I:          Um hm.

T:        to the aid we are giving, we are giving more aid for per person here than any other country in the whole world.

I:          Any other country, yes.

T:        Yes, yes.

I:          That’s right.

T:        Yeah.  They can say we can’t afford it.

1:07:30

But, uh, we do it, uh, voluntarily.  So, so I think it is, uh, old feeling of helping people that has come to be like that.

I:          That’s great.  That’s great.  Any other story that you want to add?

T:        Uh, not that I can remain, uh, no.  I don’t think I can remember anything specific.

I:          Okay.

T:        Um, well, let’s see now.

1:08:00
What was that?  Oh, yes.  well, I have to tell you that, uh, that, of course, is the main factor.  We had the watch of 12 hours.

I:          I’m sorry?

T:        Twelve hours watch

I:          Uh huh.

T:        [INAUDIBLE] and 12 hours off.  And in between, you have to change so you had six hours and 18 hours.

I:          Um.
T:        Then you change from one week to another.  And you know, it is very warm in Korea in the summer.

I:          Yeah.

T:        And the summers has been even warmer.

1:08:30

And they were so warm you could not, if you worked in the night  and was supposed to sleep in the  daytime, you could not lay in the tent.  It was too warm.  So what they did in winter, we got hold of some Koreans and we went up to some site while they were some little stream of water

I:          Um hm.
T:        and we put ourselves in the water so we managed to relax a little bit  there.

I:          Um hm.

T:        They had really terrible weather

I:          Weather.

T:        with, with, uh, heat, yes.

I:          So you didn’t  have air conditioning there.

T:        No, that was, no,

1:09:00

no, no, no.  No, very bad air condition.  No, no, no.  And, um, and we had, um, one very, uh, friendly incident that I can tell.  Uh, you know how it is in Korea when you had those cicadas and they are saying [NOISE] grasshoppers, [NOISE] those cicadas and oh they are making sounds in the night?
I:          Yeah.

T:        And it was a real, uh, orchestra and we could not sleep.

1:09:30

So one of the guys went out and he said I have to make that stop.  I cannot sleep he said.  So he took his gun and fired two shots, bang, bang, bang.  And then no cicadas. Absolutely nothing.  But, of course, after five minutes, they started again.  I did not help very much.  Yeah.  So that was a funny thing.

I:          Alright.  Mr. Jensen, oh, go ahead.

T:        Uh, know, I got to think, uh, think of something else.  Uh, I was there, of course, uh,

1:10:00

on the 4^th of  July which is a, day of the American Nation.  And then we had the meeting with all Americans in Camp Casey.

I:          Um hm.

T:        which was the central camp there.  And it was mountains of places with beer and  it was sitting alone and drinking alone all that and so on and so on.  And they were waiting for, uh, some, uh, actress to appear.  And the actress was, uh, already rather well known.  That was Marilyn Monroe.

1:10:30

I:          Um hm.  So you were there?

T:        Yes.

I:          Ha.

T:        And she came late, and the people got made and was throwing tomatoes at her.

I:          So that was in, uh, July 4, 1953?

T:        Yes.

I:          Camp Casey?

T:        Camp Casey.

I:          Did you take a picture?

T:        No.  I

I:          You don’t have picture?

T:        No.  I did not have any camera.

I:          Ah.

T:        [INAUDIBLE] so that was a friendly story.    We were there and, and she came,

1:11:00

and she came late and people got mad because it was warm and they didn’t like to wait so much.  Of course, they had the beer.  But you know how it is.

I:          So was she pretty?

T:        Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, of course.  She was singing a little bit and, um, yeah.  That was it.  Then we had some service after the War.  Of course, we had some movies straight from the States.

I:          Yeah.

T:        Black and white mostly out on  the field.

I:          Um.
T:        And we were rolling the  movies and sitting there

1:11:30

and, um, after some played, all those [INAUDIBLE] uh, mosquitos and things came to the light , and they blocked the night so we had to stop the film to clean the,  It was so many of those pictures.

I:          Oh.  It’s just been little bit more than an hour.  So if you have any other story that you wanna share with me, you can go on, please.

T:        Uh, I have to, have to, uh,

1:12:00

have to think of something

I:          How, how was the, um, mood in the NORMASH between doctor, nurse, guards?
T:        Oh yes, yes.

I:          and, and, you know, crew, all these people all  together?  How was it?  I mean, were there any kind of party after the War or anything like that?

T:        No.  During the War or just after?  So the nurses had their own, uh, part of the camp, and besides them were the medical doctors

I:          Um hm.

1:12:30

T:        And they had a officer mess, and we couldn’t go there.  We went to the normal mess where we could, when [INAUDIBLE] and things.

I:          Hm.

T:        And there we could always have a drink.  That cost 10 cents.

I:          You had to pay?

T:        Yes, yes, yes.  We had the, we had the money, military money.

I:          Ah ha.  Scrip.

T:        Scrip, yeah.  So we exchanged that for dollars and [INAUDIBLE] for few  things.  But the, so I asked the boy

1:13:00

[INAUDIBLE] That cost 10 cents also he said.  Everything 10 cents.

I:          So every time you were in for a double.

T:        Yeah.  Took the double.

I:          With the same money, right?

T:        With the same money.

I:          Yeah.  Why not.

T:        It was very, very cheap, those things they  had in the  PX were very cheap.  So

I:          Yeah.

T:        we had no trouble doing that.

I:          How much were you paid by the way?

T:        Well, we had two forms of pay.  One part, and the major part, we had

1:13:30

earned was given to us in dollars in Norway when we came back.
I:          Um.

T:        So we had just $6 a day there for payment for whatever we had to buy at something.

I:          Six dollars per  month?

T:        no, per day.

I:          Per day.

T:        Yes.

I:          So that was paid when you returned to Norway.

T:        Yeah, they, the major part of it was paid during, when we returned to Norway.

I:          And the other part?

T:        No.  That, that we could have, we could change

1:14:00

them and, uh, we had them, uh, long journey home.

I:          So you said that there are two parts of it.  One is reserved and saved for the Norway return.

T:        Yes, yes,

I:          What, what are the other?  How much were you paid else?

T:        Um, well, we had also some rations, you know, that we got, uh, free of charge, some

I:          No, no.  I’m talking you about money that you were paid.

T:        Money, yes, yes, yes.

I:          So you getting paid more than $6 a day or

1:14:30

what happened.

T:        No, no, no.  Oh yes, yes.  Uh, when you consider what we had in Norway, yes.

I:          Right.  But at, there in Korea, how much were you paid more than $6 per day?

T:        No, we did not get more than that.

I:          Okay, okay.  Um hm.

T:        But it was sort of a problem because scrips, so we used that there and so on and so on.

I:          Yes.
T:        Like we did in Germany.  We used, uh, British Army on the Rhine Baffs,

I:          Um hm.

T:        Not the pound or German marks or anything [INAUDIBLE[

1:15:00

I:          Got it.

T:        I had some experience with the military money.

I:          Um hm.

T:        at the time.  But you said something about, we had a doctor, Edwin he was called.  He is dead now.  And he found a nurse called, uh, Evelyn, and they got, uh, to be, uh, uh,

I:          Married?

T:        Like they, yes, they married in Jerusalem on their way home.  But they were together.  But you know how it is with, uh, tents and things?  It was  not so easy.  Where could they go to, uh, have some nice

1:15:30

little evening?

I:          Yeah.

T:        So they had fun out at the one place was probably very safe and very solid, and that was a green house which we used for helping, stopping dead people.  It was the morgue.
I:          Hm.

T:        So that was where he went, you know, um, with, uh, his, uh, his, uh, fiancé.  And then nobody was disturbed with that.  But, um,

1:16:00

one of the guards came past one night patrolling on guard

I:          Um hm.

T:        And then they heard some noises from the dead house and they thought it was spooks come to life, and he was very afraid and he was running.  And after he was just put on guard another place.  He, he did not want to come back there.  He heard all the noises that came from there and he thought the dead are coming up to life.  That’s very dangerous.

1:16:30

I:          What a story.

T:        So that’s, that’s, uh, interesting thing that happened also.

I:          Um.

T:        Many queer things.  Yeah.  No, I cannot think of very many more things.   Um, I don’t remember many things.  But, uh, well, it was also hard work, and we did what we could

I:          Uh huh.  Go ahead.

1:17:00

Oh still .  Uh, I think we need to end this interview here.

T:        Yes.

I:          Mr. Jensen, thank you so much. On behalf of Korean Nation, I want to thank you for your service, and you saved a lot of people including Korean people.  And that is the legacy of your service and also the spirit of humanitarian aid in Norway.  And we going to publish this

1:17:30

website, I mean, this interview into the special website 70^th Anniversary Version by the Korean government, and I want to thank you again, and I want to thank Korean Embassy in Oslo, Norway, for providing all this arrangements.  So thank you.

T:        Thank you.  And I tell you that I [INAUDIBLE] sometimes in the [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Uh huh.

T:        televisions, and I have, uh, four different satellites that I can take down.
I:          Uh huh

T:        So I follow that from time to time.
I:          Can you sing?

1:18:00

T:        Uh, [INAUDIBLE]

I:          Yeah.

T:        Yeah, I have the text home.  But  we have a television channel

I:          Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] tv.

T:        [INAUDIBLE] tv.
I:          Yes.

T:        [INAUDIBLE] I think Australia.

I:          Yeah.

T:        Yeah.
I:          Can you play [INAUDIBLE] with your piano?

T:        Um, yes I suppose so.

I:          Try it, okay?

T:        I can try.
I:          Alright.  Thank you, sir.

 

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